Silly Season 2018/2019

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Fulcrum
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Fulcrum » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:15 am

Yet, oddly enough, they employed both Raikkonen and Alonso as their number 1 drivers for close to a decade, and neither of them are especially good qualifiers; I'd certainly classify them as being better racers than qualifiers.

Even in their most dominant years (and cars), neither managed very high numbers of pole positions. Alonso in particular has an extremely lopsided Win-to-Pole ratio (1.45 Wins per Pole). Compare that to other notables:

Lauda - 25 wins, 24 poles; 1.04
Senna - 41 wins, 65 poles; 0.63
Prost - 51 wins, 33 poles; 1.54
Schumacher - 91 wins, 68 poles; 1.33
Mansell - 31 wins, 32 poles; 0.97
Hakkinen - 20 wins, 26 poles; 0.77
Vettel - 52 wins, 55 poles; 0.95
Hamilton - 71 wins, 80 poles; 0.89
Jenson Button - 15 wins, 8 poles; 1.88
Jackie Stewart - 27 wins, 17 poles; 1.59
Jim Clark - 25 wins, 33 poles; 0.76
Raikkonen - 20 wins, 18 poles; 1.11
N. Rosberg - 23 wins, 30 poles; 0.77

Senna and Clarke were both famously quick over 1 lap. Hakkinen and Rosberg are also well regarded over 1 lap.

I can't comment on Stewart (before my time), but neither Button nor Prost were ever regarded as 1-lap specialists.

Alonso's numbers are much closer to those of Button and Prost than they are Clark or Senna.

Point being, I agree 1 lap pace is crucially important for race outcomes. I don't agree Ferrari hired Alonso because he's a stellar qualifier. By no measurement is he slow, but he's never been definitely the best qualifier during his era.

I think, at the time, Alonso recommended himself on the following basis:

- was already a World Champion (proven experience)
- charismatic and spoke Italian (marketable and convenient)
- fast over 1 lap (if not the outright quickest)
- incredible race craft (probably the best at the time of being hired)
- he was looking, as were Ferrari (fortuitous)

Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Vasconia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:02 am

marmer wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:36 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:13 am


Tell me about it! I'm just amazed that you don't seem to ever see photos of him out and about with his family. As soon as Lewis steps outside, there are people taking photo's. People go on about Lewis' fashion, music ect ect but the only reason people know about it is because people want to know about it, and then they complain/moan ect. Obviously no one cares about what Seb, Max , Valtteri ect get up to then.
Lewis loves to be part of this world while Sebastian has not even a single social media account. Different points of view I guess.

I even didn´t know that Seb has two children. :wtf:
it was mentioned on teds notebook that seb's family actually attend most races are very rarely picked up by TV. its even so covert that i am sure on one notebook seb actually walked straight past his dad and ted noticed that neither said a word to the other
Wow, the guy really makes an effort to defend his privacy.

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Jolle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:02 am
marmer wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:36 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Lewis loves to be part of this world while Sebastian has not even a single social media account. Different points of view I guess.

I even didn´t know that Seb has two children. :wtf:
it was mentioned on teds notebook that seb's family actually attend most races are very rarely picked up by TV. its even so covert that i am sure on one notebook seb actually walked straight past his dad and ted noticed that neither said a word to the other
Wow, the guy really makes an effort to defend his privacy.
Well, if my dad was at my work for a few days, after a while I would stop greeting him as well :P

NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:09 am

GPR -A wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:06 am
notsofast wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:59 pm
Which kind of raises the question why a family man like Seb, with all the money he has earned, would want to continue in a risky sport with limited opportunity to win another championship. I hope Ricciardo has a clause that allows him to jump ship if Seb does decide to retire.
I doubt if Ricciardo would be hired by Ferrari, fully knowing that he has been beaten thoroughly in qualifying battle for two years. Leclerc has been consistently beating Ericsson by healthy margin at Sauber (in both qualifying and races) and if he does that to Ricciardo at Ferrari (assuming he does get hired), then his career is over within the first year of Ferrari. Leclerc seems to be less hot headed than Max and doesn't get into harakiri moves in races, which means Ricciardo's chances of salvaging in races, like he did in Red Bull due to Max's mistakes, would be far lower.

All the alphas in top teams gets decided on the basis of one lap speed and with experience comes race craft. Vettel had no great deal of race craft at the beginning of the career, but had pure one lap speed that allowed him to out qualify Webber and demand Alpha position in the team, despite being the younger driver. So was Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Lewis and now Max.

Qualifying performance is undeniably and critically important to the top teams. In places like Hungary and Singapore, even if a driver has the faster car, but can't out qualify the competition in qualifying, most likely he ends up losing the race. We already saw it this year!
Ricciardo did out qualify Vettel when they were team mates, so if they were happy to take Vettel for his 1 lap pace, Ricciardo is a step up. Max is obviously another step or 2 on from that.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Vasconia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:55 pm

Jolle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am


Well, if my dad was at my work for a few days, after a while I would stop greeting him as well :P
Hahahahaha :mrgreen:

Anyway, I just find curious how the TV cameras haven´t shown his family more than once, I can´t recall a moment where I have seen his father or wife.

marvin78
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by marvin78 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:11 pm

I think if you dont't want the attention you can make deals with the media, that you give them something and they let other things go. And so you can make deals with them, that they show everything from your life. That's probably what Hamilton did.

seventhsin
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by seventhsin » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:35 am

Williams have signed George Russell on a multi year deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45831954

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kptaylor
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by kptaylor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:04 pm

I hope Williams are in a position to stop with the pay drivers and sign Ocon too...

zeph
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by zeph » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:21 pm

Apparently, Toto Wolff believes Williams would be a step backwards for Ocon from a career perspective, so chances are he has advised him to stay away.

FrukostScones
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by FrukostScones » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:10 pm

Ferrari: VET/LEC !
Mercedes: HAM/BOT !
Red Bull: VES/GAS !
McLaren: SAI/NOR !
Findia: STR/PER !
Sauber: RAI/GIO !
Toro Rosso: KVY/WEH/ALB
Haas: GRO/MAG !
Williams: RUS/SIR
Renault: RIC/HUL !
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

kptaylor
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by kptaylor » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:23 pm

zeph wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:21 pm
Apparently, Toto Wolff believes Williams would be a step backwards for Ocon from a career perspective, so chances are he has advised him to stay away.
Versus a drive in Force India, I agree. However, versus no ride at all or merely a reserve/sim driver?

NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by NathanOlder » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:42 pm

I dont think putting Russell and Ocon in the same team is a good idea. It will damage one of their careers, probably Russell as a rookie. Or if Russell matches Ocon then thats the end of Ocon. So Mercedes don't have much to gain by putting them in the same team.

Its basically like Toro Rosso. How often does the losing driver of the Toro Rosso drivers progress , even if they are actually very talented (Sainz comes to mind) . Once you are beat in the same car by a driver from the same young driver program , its usually game over.

Unless that is Mercedes want to eliminate one of their drivers so they only have 1 headache in replacing Bottas for 2020.
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ringo
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by ringo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:55 am

FrukostScones wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:10 pm
Ferrari: VET/LEC !
Mercedes: HAM/BOT !
Red Bull: VES/GAS !
McLaren: SAI/NOR !
Findia: STR/PER !
Sauber: RAI/GIO !
Toro Rosso: KVY/WEH/ALB
Haas: GRO/MAG !
Williams: RUS/SIR
Renault: RIC/HUL !
Was force india confirmed as str and per?
For Sure!!

ringo
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by ringo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:28 pm

Russel looks a bit scrawny to manhandle a modern F1 car.
His figure is almost androgynous.

He will need to start pumping iron and eating tons of meat for 2019, if he is going to take on the host of aggressive crash kids we have in Magnussen, Verstappen, and Vettel.
For Sure!!

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:49 pm

Russel has been winning in GP3 where they don't have such luxuries as power steering like they do in F1. His issue might be holding his head up for a whole race at the higher g circuits but that can be trained for. It doesn't necessarily need lots of muscles. As for eating tons of meat, Hamilton is a vegan and is doing ok...
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