2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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lio007
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by lio007 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 pm

deleted.
uuups...sorry, wrong thread!
Last edited by lio007 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:27 pm

lio007 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 pm
Nice!
https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/10 ... 5617873920

But maybe bad for Williams...

Wrong thread, I think.

lio007
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by lio007 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:33 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:27 pm
lio007 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 pm
Nice!
https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/10 ... 5617873920

But maybe bad for Williams...

Wrong thread, I think.
yep, sorry!
Thank you!

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Morteza » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:44 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Manoah2u » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:13 am

brundle talking always seems like a kicking a ball into an open goal less then 1 feet in front of the line.
it's never insightful, it's never new or refreshing, just the exact same you can read in any article, by any person.
atleast he's not an annoying tool like eddie jordan and co. still, it'd be nice to see some refreshing insight instead of
the same same-old, same-old.

#endofrant

that said, i really do wonder about binotto though.

Since Arrivabene arrived, Ferrari has turned into a much better position. It seemed the team did rather well with him.
Also, all the accusations that Arrivabene supposedly didn't handle things well is first of all really low and easy to do.
They all seem to forget that like said before, he DID get Ferrari into a great position, and i would like to remind everybody that
the atmosphere at Ferrari turned into a much more positive environment, and even more, i'd like to remind people about the
FACT that despite VETTEL having made seriously bad actions, like straight driving into Hamilton in Baku, and his badmouting
charlie whiting, MANY, MANY clumsy, foolish, unneccesary moves this year wich saw him spinning MANY times,
which was ACTUALLY what cost him, and thus Ferrari, the title, went totally 'forgiven'.

If any, Vettel should have been dumped.

ON TOP of that, the only actual internal 'struggles' or 'warfare' was with the arrival of the EGO of Binotto, which he has plenty.
Binotto is a really over-the top ego, where Arrivabene has been nothing but a calm, respectable, and honest man, despite being
Italian, 'known' for being 'feisty' by nature. The turmoil came from BINOTTO, not Arrivabene, and the moment poor Marchionne
passed, he immediately stepped up his game, and being befriended with the right people, Arrivabene got stabbed in the back.

So I for one, am completely NOT positive about Binotto's appointment as leader.
Quite frankly, i can see a huge spat coming up between Vettel and Binotto, and I can also see Ferrari personel getting fed up fast.

It's fun and game people mentioning a 'blame culture', but the truth is, that was exactly which did NOT happen with Arrivabene.
Mauricio was actually the guy that TOOK blame.

Ferrari coming season is going to be a mess, guaranteed, and i predict an absolute EXODUS of important Ferrari staff,
which will go straight towards either Mclaren or Renault, or perhaps Sauber first. Maybe even HAAS will be smart and take them aboard.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:13 am
brundle talking always seems like a kicking a ball into an open goal less then 1 feet in front of the line.
it's never insightful, it's never new or refreshing, just the exact same you can read in any article, by any person.
atleast he's not an annoying tool like eddie jordan and co. still, it'd be nice to see some refreshing insight instead of
the same same-old, same-old.

#endofrant

that said, i really do wonder about binotto though.

Since Arrivabene arrived, Ferrari has turned into a much better position. It seemed the team did rather well with him.
Also, all the accusations that Arrivabene supposedly didn't handle things well is first of all really low and easy to do.
They all seem to forget that like said before, he DID get Ferrari into a great position, and i would like to remind everybody that
the atmosphere at Ferrari turned into a much more positive environment, and even more, i'd like to remind people about the
FACT that despite VETTEL having made seriously bad actions, like straight driving into Hamilton in Baku, and his badmouting
charlie whiting, MANY, MANY clumsy, foolish, unneccesary moves this year wich saw him spinning MANY times,
which was ACTUALLY what cost him, and thus Ferrari, the title, went totally 'forgiven'.

If any, Vettel should have been dumped.

ON TOP of that, the only actual internal 'struggles' or 'warfare' was with the arrival of the EGO of Binotto, which he has plenty.
Binotto is a really over-the top ego, where Arrivabene has been nothing but a calm, respectable, and honest man, despite being
Italian, 'known' for being 'feisty' by nature. The turmoil came from BINOTTO, not Arrivabene, and the moment poor Marchionne
passed, he immediately stepped up his game, and being befriended with the right people, Arrivabene got stabbed in the back.

So I for one, am completely NOT positive about Binotto's appointment as leader.
Quite frankly, i can see a huge spat coming up between Vettel and Binotto, and I can also see Ferrari personel getting fed up fast.

It's fun and game people mentioning a 'blame culture', but the truth is, that was exactly which did NOT happen with Arrivabene.
Mauricio was actually the guy that TOOK blame.

Ferrari coming season is going to be a mess, guaranteed, and i predict an absolute EXODUS of important Ferrari staff,
which will go straight towards either Mclaren or Renault, or perhaps Sauber first. Maybe even HAAS will be smart and take them aboard.
sorry to say but the way you talk about Vettel ain't quiet nice, I myself ain't no fan of Vettel but you can't put it all on Vettel, Ferrari made some bad calls during races, didn't use Raikkönnen when they had to as a buffer to Hamilton, stratigically they have made some bad calls aswell.

Yes Vettel made some mistakes, but it wasn't all his fault.

about the fight between Arrivibene and Binotto I can't say that much but it sounds to me as if you where there in person (which i doubt highly)
Arrivibene is/was a stubborn man, didn't open up to the press much and of what i have seen kept mostly for himself .... but this is just my personal view and opinion as a F1 fan
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Manoah2u » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:35 pm

You're missing the point. As much as Vettel scr*wed up and would not deserve to get ditched, EXACTLY the same goes for Arrivabene.

Arrivabene being stubborn is the most rediculous talk i've read. Remember Domenicali?
and you seem to forget that Arrivabene DID talk to press many times but refused to deal with BS?

also your comment about 'being there in person'?
geesh, are you twelve? what a rediculous comment.

perhaps you should 'as a supposed f1 fan' read more into f1 news,
like that piero Ferrari actually commented on the fact, AND stated that there indeed was a power struggle between both and they had to ditch Maurizio to keep Binotto.

but hey, whatever you want.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 pm

oh wow .... either you stepped on the wrong side out of bed or you just being stepped on your thoes... or maybe something else is wrong with you.
No need to come at me that harsh, I just gave my opinion in a forum that is made to share different opinions ...... so my advice, either stick your head in the freezer to cool down or take a smal break otherwise ......

I see it my way as it suits me, don't need to get personal with your comment.
believe I was fully aware that there is a power struggle at Ferrari but YOU made it sounds like if you've been there personally
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm

Capharol wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 pm

I just gave my opinion in a forum that is made to share different opinions ......
That was a long time ago. Objective posts in team- or race-threads are rare as tigers in Africa ;)

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:23 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm
Capharol wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 pm

I just gave my opinion in a forum that is made to share different opinions ......
That was a long time ago. Objective posts in team- or race-threads are rare as tigers in Africa ;)
seems like it.... well the discussion-culture in Forums or even Twitter and Facebook has gone downhill rapidly

seems like there are only keyboard warriors left on the internet....

But let us stay on Topic
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.

KeiKo403
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by KeiKo403 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Well Manoah2u was on topic.

Vettel did make a lot of mistakes over the past couple of seasons, does that make him a terrible driver? No ofcourse not.
However he can't be making mistakes like these when championships are on the line. Granted, Ferrari didn't give him full support by making Kimi be his wingman. You can look back and say that was a mistake but Ferrari had a super car for most of the year so one could argue that he didn't need a wingman.

Ferrari arguably lost Monza due to Vettels driving at the start of the race causing him to spin out and then they left Kimi out there for ages for what seemed to be to hold up Hamilton & Bottas so Seb could close up as much as possible. So was that a Vettel mistake which caused a Ferrari mistake which caused them to lose on home ground?

It shouldn't matter that Arrivabene didn't like taking to press. Whats the point really, we've all seen how the press ask stupid questions, he was no nonsense and love him or hate him he definitely helped the team.

If there was a power struggle between Binotto and Arrivabene though, now that Binotto has seemingly won, what does he do now. I just hope all of the hard work over the last 2 seasons from Ferrari won't be lost under it's new leadership and where there will seemingly be a power struggle from Vettel if Leclerc performs as well at Ferrari as he did in Sauber.

LM10
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by LM10 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:27 pm

KeiKo403 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:53 pm
Well Manoah2u was on topic.

Vettel did make a lot of mistakes over the past couple of seasons, does that make him a terrible driver? No ofcourse not.
However he can't be making mistakes like these when championships are on the line. Granted, Ferrari didn't give him full support by making Kimi be his wingman. You can look back and say that was a mistake but Ferrari had a super car for most of the year so one could argue that he didn't need a wingman.

Ferrari arguably lost Monza due to Vettels driving at the start of the race causing him to spin out and then they left Kimi out there for ages for what seemed to be to hold up Hamilton & Bottas so Seb could close up as much as possible. So was that a Vettel mistake which caused a Ferrari mistake which caused them to lose on home ground?

It shouldn't matter that Arrivabene didn't like taking to press. Whats the point really, we've all seen how the press ask stupid questions, he was no nonsense and love him or hate him he definitely helped the team.

If there was a power struggle between Binotto and Arrivabene though, now that Binotto has seemingly won, what does he do now. I just hope all of the hard work over the last 2 seasons from Ferrari won't be lost under it's new leadership and where there will seemingly be a power struggle from Vettel if Leclerc performs as well at Ferrari as he did in Sauber.
It's arguable in many ways. I can as well tell that Vettel tried to compensate (and mostly overdone) for lack of wingmanship from Kimi and for lack of absolute competence and professionalism from Ferrari strategy team. Mercedes as a team is still miles away, no doubt.

Having the slightly faster car (definitely not in every race, though) surely doesn't mean that a driver doesn't need a wingman. Especially if the opponent is such a brutally strong side like Mercedes. No chance to compensate that.
In the first half of the season Kimi was horrible and left Vettel alone in most races by either qualifying badly or losing several positions at the race start already.
I don't know why this is being ignored or why some people don't think outside the box.

tok-tokkie
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by tok-tokkie » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:23 pm

I am very grateful to Manoah2u for that post. Whether he is right or wrong we will see but I am now much better prepared to evaluate what comes to pass.

timbo
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by timbo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:52 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:35 pm
As much as Vettel scr*wed up and would not deserve to get ditched, EXACTLY the same goes for Arrivabene.
There is a difference between an actual driver and a manager.
For once, the compensation for dumping one is very different than for the other.

One interesting thing is the timing of the decision. To me, it is between "sacrificial ousting" (which happen during the season) and planned retirement (which usually happen right after the end of the season). The timing plays well along with the "power struggle" notion, in what the decision was made after the Christmas holidays probably at the first board meeting.

From the outside, it is impossible to see all the details behind this and we can only guess. From my perspective though, if I had to choose between a technical director and a marketing person I would choose the former.

OTOH the (mostly British) press suddenly pointing fingers on Arrivabene seems kinda hasty.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 am

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... o/4322508/
Ferrari made the "wrong decision" picking Mattia Binotto to replace Maurizio Arrivabene as its Formula 1 team principal, says former technical director Gary Anderson.
Anderson said: "I don't really see why you would take your best technical person…and put him in a management, political position which is not his forte. Why would you do that?"

Binotto is someone who has been very good at being a technical manager. You've got to allow him to be a technical manager.
"That is a full-time job, seven days a week. It's not a part-time thing. That is going to dilute their technical effort for sure.
it will not matter if Ferrari's team works better, if Binotto's move means the car is slower."

"Anderson also warned that could ultimately cost itself a prize technical asset with its policy of kicking underperforming team bosses out.
He said: "What happens at the end of 2019 if Red Bull steps between them and suddenly Ferrari are third or fourth in the championship?
It could happen. [Then] his head's gonna roll.

"They might lose a very good asset because they put him in a position he shouldn't be in."
reasonable words from a reasonable man.

Gonna be some explainin' to do if Raikkonen beats Vettel in a Sauber.

Personally, i think Gary is right on it. I expect nothing short of all-out war from the side of RedBull with their Honda powerplant. They have put all their eggs in the Verstappen-basket,
and the 2019 contender. RB was surpremely strong even last season especially at the end, if the Honda engine is up for it, they're gonna be the team to take the challenge to Mercedes.

Mercedes is stable af, Hamilton is strong af, nothing's changed there. nothing changed at Mercedes at all.
RedBull has been aiming for this for a while, Verstappen is getting stronger and stronger, the team is fast, Newey is all-out on the '19 contender, AND the team is stable AF.

Ferrari on the other hand, has Vettel whom has been spiraling downwards, has lost super-experienced last ferrari-champion Kimi and replaced it with arguably a rookie, Leclerc,
who will be thrown 'into the deep'. in a team, that is still in the aftermath of the sudden death of Sergio Marchionne, in an environment where EVERYTHING is changing lately,
and i repeat, a team, where for 3 or 4 years Arrivabene was 'the man' and obviously people bonded, and now last season there was a 'camp' and 'war' and 'power struggle' between
-let's be honest here a FRIGGIN TECH GUY- and now Ferrari has put THAT MAN in charge, because he threatened to leave, and leave the team with that man.
which man took who's side last year and how will that influence the team morale?

funny how it's claimed by a sky pundit that there's a blame environment at Ferrari and that Arrivabene was to blame, whilst Arrivabene has dumped NOBODY.
Not even after the painful issues of power problems in 2017 where cars couldn't even start at the grid were people punished. I think everybody expected hefty things to happen
after that, but no. and who was in charge? not binotto, Arrivabene, and Marchionne, etc.

Now, everybody may worry about what's gonna happen under the 'new reign', imagine what will happen, like gary says, if they are at best 3rd in the standings, and in worst-case scenario get even beaten by Renault?

Like gary says, this is handled bad and has all the elements in place for failure.

I don't think Vettel is going to even want to stay in an environment that - to me - sounds as hostile and critical as it is seemingly is turning out to become right now, if performance is going to lack.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.