Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

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Jolle
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am

Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.

henry
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:40 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:31 am


interestingly, today the ECJ has announced the UK's right to remain in the EU without penalty
(the opposite of what was stated by the EU after the UK referendum constitutionally mandating withdrawal)
penalty meaning cancellation of the partial 'rebate' of the UK's (particularly large) annual fee charged by the EU

The ECJ has ruled that the U.K. sovereign goverment can revoke the Article 50 notification and return to status quo ante (everything as before). This is the first time the ECJ has been asked to rule on this. Prior to this any opinions expressed on either side were just so much air.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

henry
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:11 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
They would be leaving behind an enormous infrastructure, their own, the many associated suppliers and a highly specialised workforce. I think that would be a exaggerated response to the issues of work permits etc etc. They might think differently if setting up other, less integrated, parts of their sports business.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:12 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
Doubt it. Most of the staff are British and it would be just as difficult moving all of them as sorting out shipment paperwork.
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Big Tea
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:40 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:31 am
the withdrawal bill (if passed) would continue the UK's free trade (with only the EU) for an indefinite time
(and it now seems that the MP's vote tomorrow on this bill is to be postponed)

Switzerland is a 3rd country that has free trade (with only the EU) but no free movement obligation to all EU people
an annual fee is charged for this agreement

interestingly, today the ECJ has announced the UK's right to remain in the EU without penalty
(the opposite of what was stated by the EU after the UK referendum constitutionally mandating withdrawal)
penalty meaning cancellation of the partial 'rebate' of the UK's (particularly large) annual fee charged by the EU

the UK 'always' has free movement for Irish people
there's more UK people thus entitled to hold an Irish passport than there's Irish people entitled to hold an Irish passport
Not sure about the last part. My mothers father was Irish, and I have inquired about getting an Irish (EU, for after Brexit) passport and was more or less told not to waste my time, it is difficult to prove as he is now dead.
It may of course hold for anyone from Northern Ireland and children of first gen Irish in UK, but it is not 'easy'.

(when I say 'not sure' I am not doubting you have read it, just that it is true)
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

netoperek
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by netoperek » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:12 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
Doubt it. Most of the staff are British and it would be just as difficult moving all of them as sorting out shipment paperwork.
Are You sure about it? I'm not suggesting it's not true, I'm only asking if that's a fact or an assumption

JonoNic
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by JonoNic » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:54 pm

Wow. Brexit has so many ifs and buts. I hope for the sake of F1 that it a big deal for the sake of change. Other countries will be only to glad to accommodate F1 teams and its infrastructure 'challenges'.
Always find the gap then use it.

JonoNic
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by JonoNic » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Always find the gap then use it.

Vasconia
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:30 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
A good chance to change this. I don´t understand why Mercedes or Renault must be there.

zac510
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by zac510 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:28 pm

As far as I understand there's still quite a few specialist parts of the car outsourced to small contractors (ie the car is not 100% built in-house) and lot of the suppliers are based in the UK. This would affect any teams that move out of the UK.
Packing up a wind tunnel and autoclaves would be expensive but it hardly seems impossible for a team to move countries.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:43 pm

Surely the majority of staff at the UK based teams will be British. So moving the team would rely on those people moving abroad , and I'd guess only a small minority would be willing to do that. Teams like Mercedes and RedBull have successful set-ups so why take all that apart for the sake of working with permits as you put it Jolle.
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Jolle
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:05 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:30 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
A good chance to change this. I don´t understand why Mercedes or Renault must be there.
Because they bought existing British companies to run their F1 projects. Mercedes can be traced back to Reynard, under Tyrell's license, Renault to Benneton on Toleman's license and RedBull is basically still the Paul Stewart team in origin. Mercedes also of course bought Ilmor to develop that into HWA.

McLaren is of course more or less a Saudi company now :P but in the past was Project 4 with McLaren's license being hired to run Philip Morris' F1 program (more or less). There is a lot of money going in and out of the UK to support all this, especially from Austria, Germany and Switzerland (RedBull, Daimler and Philip Morris), so it wouldn't surprise me to have more grip on the situation they would like to not loose any extra on taxes (as even the British government doesn't even have the slightest idea how to solve these kinds of things).

For a company like Daimler it's not a fairly big deal to open up shop in Stuttgart for instance, or for RedBull to relocate within the RedBull Ring. A one time write off instead of years of uncertainty.

Vasconia
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Vasconia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:45 pm

Jolle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:05 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:30 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am
Good chance that a couple of big teams (Mercedes and RedBull) will move to their “real” counties (Germany and Austria) to not have to deal with work permits etc etc.
A good chance to change this. I don´t understand why Mercedes or Renault must be there.
Because they bought existing British companies to run their F1 projects. Mercedes can be traced back to Reynard, under Tyrell's license, Renault to Benneton on Toleman's license and RedBull is basically still the Paul Stewart team in origin. Mercedes also of course bought Ilmor to develop that into HWA.

McLaren is of course more or less a Saudi company now :P but in the past was Project 4 with McLaren's license being hired to run Philip Morris' F1 program (more or less). There is a lot of money going in and out of the UK to support all this, especially from Austria, Germany and Switzerland (RedBull, Daimler and Philip Morris), so it wouldn't surprise me to have more grip on the situation they would like to not loose any extra on taxes (as even the British government doesn't even have the slightest idea how to solve these kinds of things).

For a company like Daimler it's not a fairly big deal to open up shop in Stuttgart for instance, or for RedBull to relocate within the RedBull Ring. A one time write off instead of years of uncertainty.
100% right. There are many aspects to clarify but if they have to relocate in their respective countries it would bad for the UK.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm

none of this will happen
nobody will cross any bridges they don't have to cross

anyway the GBP is now cheap not expensive
and we don't have to charge import tax where we don't want to

Jolle
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm
none of this will happen
nobody will cross any bridges they don't have to cross

anyway the GBP is now cheap not expensive
and we don't have to charge import tax where we don't want to
yeah... trying to sell GB as a low wages country doesn't really work... Look at TATA and Ford starting to pull out of the UK and I think more will follow.

The whole "Brexit might work out well, we just don't know" doesn't work for me. So far all the experts and research pointed towards to only downsides. Amsterdam and Frankfurt are reporting more and more relocations from the city and the first factories starting to relocate. The GBP is on it's lowest in decades. They even have the army on standby!

This will be the final nail in the Great British Empire's coffin.