2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

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Maritimer
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Maritimer » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:34 am

strad wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:04 pm
This thread has helped me understand a lot but there is still something I don't understand.
Yes the following car finds a lot of disturbed air as it comes up behind another. But why can't it push thru that disturbed air and enter a calm space close behind the leading car.
Like drafting in other series.
That calm air as you put it has momentum and is moving in the same direction as the vehicles. Good in a straight line for catching someone, bad in the corners when the car cant work the air as hard and thus makes less downforce. The cars are designed in simulations by themselves, optimized to run in clean, still air. The air getting dragged with the car ahead will have a lower dV relative to the following car, difference in velocity over/under a wing being what generates lift due to the pressure differential it causes.

Turbulence is an issue, but even the non turbulent air behind a leading car causes issues.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by godlameroso » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:05 pm

Maritimer wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:34 am
strad wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:04 pm
This thread has helped me understand a lot but there is still something I don't understand.
Yes the following car finds a lot of disturbed air as it comes up behind another. But why can't it push thru that disturbed air and enter a calm space close behind the leading car.
Like drafting in other series.
That calm air as you put it has momentum and is moving in the same direction as the vehicles. Good in a straight line for catching someone, bad in the corners when the car cant work the air as hard and thus makes less downforce. The cars are designed in simulations by themselves, optimized to run in clean, still air. The air getting dragged with the car ahead will have a lower dV relative to the following car, difference in velocity over/under a wing being what generates lift due to the pressure differential it causes.

Turbulence is an issue, but even the non turbulent air behind a leading car causes issues.
Air has momentum in yaw as well, the aero on the car is more disturbing to a trailing car on the outside of the curve than the inside.
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strad
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by strad » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:09 pm

Thanks for the help. Still I would think that on the straights they could get close enough in the draft to be able to overtake. Since most overtaking in F1 takes place at the end of a straight before the next corner.
I do understand what you say about the bubble and the close following rear car helping the lead car.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:38 pm

The problem is that in order to benefit from the draught/tow, the following car needs to close enough in the preceding corner. Currently, by the time the following car has got close enough for the draught/tow to be felt, the straight has ended. China has shown that F1 cars can use this process if the straight is long enough. What the rules are trying to do is close the cars up in the preceding corner. Then the straights might be long enough.
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strad
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by strad » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:56 pm

Got it #-o ...Thanks
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by turbof1 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:46 pm

Both a look back on pre-2019 front wings and deep analysis of the new front wing regulations:
https://www.f1technical.net/news/21935
#AeroFrodo

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Zynerji » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:17 pm

Does anyone think these changes are going to make DRS absurdly effective?

We may see a race where qualifying 2nd might be the best option if the zone effect is outrageous.

I expect that after race 1, all DRS zones are shortened by a large amount because of the outcry. I mean, Australia is not a passing track by nature. If there are 35 on track passes, the teams/fans/media are going to whine about the DRS Lottery.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Zynerji » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:17 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:46 pm
Both a look back on pre-2019 front wings and deep analysis of the new front wing regulations:
https://www.f1technical.net/news/21935
Great article! Thank you for the effort!

Blackout
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Blackout » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Are these solutions still legal ? (I mean the yellow and purple vanes, not necessarily the STR/Merc elevated top whisbones) they're interesting for tire wake management and I wonder if more teams will copy them... if the 2019 rules permit it :?:
https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/S ... 162384.jpg
Image

jjn9128
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by jjn9128 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:06 pm

Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 pm
Are these solutions still legal ? (I mean the yellow and purple vanes, not necessarily the STR/Merc elevated top whisbones) they're interesting for tire wake management and I wonder if more teams will copy them... if the 2019 rules permit it :?:
I'm not sure either were technically legal last year... the yellow vane certainly appears to be outside the "front brake air duct" volume in that image - from the top of the air duct the blue one looks to be as well. I imagine they can/will keep the blue one because they can argue it's a suspension element not a part of the brake duct. It may have to be more neutrally shaped though with more stringent radii checks. Haas haven't gone to that high wishbone design in their 2019 renders so presumable Ferrari aren't.
#aerogandalf

FW17
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by FW17 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:55 pm

Wish there was a notch in the front end plate just for aesthetics

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jjn9128
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by jjn9128 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:57 pm

Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 pm
Are these solutions still legal ? (I mean the yellow and purple vanes, not necessarily the STR/Merc elevated top whisbones) they're interesting for tire wake management and I wonder if more teams will copy them... if the 2019 rules permit it :?:
Toro Rosso seem to have dropped their upper wishbone - could be because they're using non-listed parts from Red Bull this year.
#aerogandalf

Shakeman
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by Shakeman » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:53 pm

Shakeman wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:42 pm


Would it be possible to move the vortex tunnel from the outside of the wings near the end plate to close to the nose of the car and aim the vortex at the front wheel wake to steer it outboard?

I think there's scope in the y250 area. After I posted I went onto YT and low and behold there was a Scarbs video discussing 2019 Front Wings in my recommended videos. Big Brother is definitely watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuY3-qn2tIs
Looks like Renault have done just that to get as much value out of the y250 area as possible.

FW17
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by FW17 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:14 pm

Wonder if this edge vortex is possible with the current front wings

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subcritical71
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Re: 2019 Aerodynamic Changes & Solutions

Post by subcritical71 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:10 pm

Here comes the sinister side of my thinking... What would happen if the end plates happen to 'fall off' the car. Would that allow the teams scope to modify the elements so that an end plate-less front wing would perform better by inducing outwash?