Race track design and safety

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skgoa
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by skgoa » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:53 am

It's not just that drivers nowadays regularly get away from making big (and stupid) mistakes without any damage or risk of being stuck in gravel. More and more they also use "outbreacking themselves" and other "mistakes" to cut corners or just not breaking as much for a corner as they should, because they know they will get away with it. We used to laugh at those rookie / untalented drivers who had a tendency to get stuck in gravel. Nowadays such drivers can come back onto the track and take others off... If it's to risky to physically discourage them, then IMHO they simply should be punished by the stewards. Or a very wild idea: have the ECU cut the engine when the car is further than a car width over the white line at the edge of the curcuit. That way the tracks stay safe and drivers learn very fast that they should stay on the track.

Kiril Varbanov
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by Kiril Varbanov » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:29 pm

On a related note, here are some more thoughts on race track designs. Words from Tilke himself: http://f1framework.blogspot.com/2014/01 ... esign.html

xDama
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by xDama » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:44 pm

By coincidence I was thinking about this subject the other day, in general the tarmac run-off zones and the lack of gravel- and grass on circuits and how it's negatively affecting racing.

I was thinking about the next :

Why aren't circuits build with a tarmac run-off zone, with a layer of gravel or grass on top of it? I'm thinking tarmac, with about 5 or 10cm of gravel or dirt. If a car goes off, he's still heavily penalised for the mistake, since the layer of gravel will slow him down, make the tyres dirty and make the car lose a lot of grip. At the same time a car is less likely to flip or dig in to the gravelbox, like with the old gravelboxes.

Any thoughts on this?
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna

Tim.Wright
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by Tim.Wright » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:52 pm

because after one car skidding off the whole thing woud be destroyed and will need to be re-layed?
Not the engineer at Force India

xDama
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by xDama » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 pm

Tim.Wright wrote:because after one car skidding off the whole thing woud be destroyed and will need to be re-layed?
During a session this would indeed occur, but I think it would be reasonably easy to have some sort of machine/team that makes sure the gravel traps are restored for each session.

But even after a couple of skids on the same place, the run-off area would still be covered with gravel and dirt, so if a driver goes off, there will always be a loss in time/places/clean tyres/...
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna

arsebiscuits
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:23 pm

Re: Race track design and safety

Post by arsebiscuits » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:25 pm

I think a big reason for the removal of gravel is to be able to use the circuit for motorbikes. Also, gravel can make cars roll if hit at the wrong angle.

FW17
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Re: Race track design and safety

Post by FW17 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:23 pm

Is it feasible to cover the gravel runoffs with a paver which can be removed when a circuit is hosting a bike race?


Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: Race track design and safety

Post by Jolle » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:55 pm

FW17 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:23 pm
Is it feasible to cover the gravel runoffs with a paver which can be removed when a circuit is hosting a bike race?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4taxdfGBgQE
About thirty or fourty years ago, in The Netherlands, they covered up all children playgrounds with these bricks and tiles. Good for bouncing but cars would rip them apart in one go.

I would go for tarmac with sensors at specific places where when you go off track, your PU goes to 70% for 5 seconds. Safe, undisputable and still suitable for moto and club races. Also, having cars wedged into gravel traps would mean a lot of red flags or safety cars these days.

Tzk
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Re: Race track design and safety

Post by Tzk » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Current f1 cars would probably just lift those paver bricks due to their high downforce levels. There‘s a reason they weld and/or fasten drain covers to prevent them from flying around...

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Race track design and safety

Post by Zynerji » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:40 am

Im more in favor of a spray on rubber to do the entire track after a nice diamond grind.

If the track is sticky, the cars won't leave it, or if they do, it gets reaaaaaaalllly sticky, and they lose time.

Im thinking along the lines of a Rhino Lining material, but developed for this purpose.

Tzk
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Race track design and safety

Post by Tzk » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:59 pm

I believe the issue isn‘t the track or the runoff areas itself but the possible time gain the drivers get from running off track. So if you can remove the time gains, you‘ll naturally remove drivers trying to go off track.

I also think that reducing the overall DF will get us better racing, that‘s ot here though.