Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

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timbo
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by timbo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 am

What would be the point of having such an exhaust arrangement?
You'd get some blowing effect, but where? What is the percentage of time per lap the turbine is running overboost? Also, what good is in having exhaust driven effect which occurs very abruptly? Wastegates can't be electronically controlled, right?

Zynerji
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by Zynerji » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:44 am

timbo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 am
What would be the point of having such an exhaust arrangement?
You'd get some blowing effect, but where? What is the percentage of time per lap the turbine is running overboost? Also, what good is in having exhaust driven effect which occurs very abruptly? Wastegates can't be electronically controlled, right?
It would be interesting to see if the waste gate exhaust gives the ultimate wing effect, or if it is simply a pulse entrainment of the ICE exhaust gases below it.

outsid3r
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by outsid3r » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:53 am

Can the different wastegate layout be turbo related? I noticed that Honeywell is out of the suppliers list and Garrett is in. Maybe they worked out something clever in conjunction with Garrett?

godlameroso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by godlameroso » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:03 pm

timbo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 am
What would be the point of having such an exhaust arrangement?
You'd get some blowing effect, but where? What is the percentage of time per lap the turbine is running overboost? Also, what good is in having exhaust driven effect which occurs very abruptly? Wastegates can't be electronically controlled, right?
The wastegates are electronically controlled by hydraulic actuators.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

godlameroso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by godlameroso » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:06 pm

outsid3r wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:53 am
Can the different wastegate layout be turbo related? I noticed that Honeywell is out of the suppliers list and Garrett is in. Maybe they worked out something clever in conjunction with Garrett?
Honeywell is the parent company of Garrett.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

enri_the_red
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by enri_the_red » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:50 pm

According to the italian version of motorsport.com ( https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/diret ... a/4311502/ ) , last December the FIA issued a technical directive stating that the two wastegate exhausts must blow in the same way

bosyber
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by bosyber » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies,that makes a lot of sense. I didn't doubt, just wondered if I missed some obvious clues (or was just too dense!)
enri_the_red wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:50 pm
According to the italian version of motorsport.com ( https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/diret ... a/4311502/ ) , last December the FIA issued a technical directive stating that the two wastegate exhausts must blow in the same way
but if the bottom pipe makes an almost 90 degree bend, with the top one much more straightforward, no doubt 'due to packaging /geometry', how would you stop them? Sure I suppose FIA/rivals could argue it is a sort of simple fluidic valve, but would that really fly?

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:03 pm

The dummy pipe underneath could function as a silencer if my knoelwedge on silencers is up to snuff. They don't want you to know when that thing is blowing the wing!
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Tzk
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by Tzk » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:08 pm

I finally found a good picture of the 2018 exhaust test in hockenheim... blue lines were added by me.

Image

BassVirolla
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by BassVirolla » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 am

Could it be a fluidic switch to engage the main exhaust stream to the wing only with a pulse of wastegate?

BwajSF
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by BwajSF » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 am

bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies,that makes a lot of sense. I didn't doubt, just wondered if I missed some obvious clues (or was just too dense!)
enri_the_red wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:50 pm
According to the italian version of motorsport.com ( https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/diret ... a/4311502/ ) , last December the FIA issued a technical directive stating that the two wastegate exhausts must blow in the same way
but if the bottom pipe makes an almost 90 degree bend, with the top one much more straightforward, no doubt 'due to packaging /geometry', how would you stop them? Sure I suppose FIA/rivals could argue it is a sort of simple fluidic valve, but would that really fly?
Or Simple... This might be looked at as some perfume bottle concept...
The Upper Pipe is where the fast moving gases go through.. since the lower one is at 90 degrees the fast moving exhaust gases in the upper tube might cause the atmospheric air to be pulled inside from the lower tube and mix with the fast moving gases in the upper tube causing the temperature of the wastegate to reduce a bit... and also since the atmospheric air is being pulled into the wastegate pipe...it might add to some sort of performance to the rear of the car..just guessing....

GTO99
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by GTO99 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:57 am

BwajSF wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 am
bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies,that makes a lot of sense. I didn't doubt, just wondered if I missed some obvious clues (or was just too dense!)
enri_the_red wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:50 pm
According to the italian version of motorsport.com ( https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/diret ... a/4311502/ ) , last December the FIA issued a technical directive stating that the two wastegate exhausts must blow in the same way
but if the bottom pipe makes an almost 90 degree bend, with the top one much more straightforward, no doubt 'due to packaging /geometry', how would you stop them? Sure I suppose FIA/rivals could argue it is a sort of simple fluidic valve, but would that really fly?
Or Simple... This might be looked at as some perfume bottle concept...
The Upper Pipe is where the fast moving gases go through.. since the lower one is at 90 degrees the fast moving exhaust gases in the upper tube might cause the atmospheric air to be pulled inside from the lower tube and mix with the fast moving gases in the upper tube causing the temperature of the wastegate to reduce a bit... and also since the atmospheric air is being pulled into the wastegate pipe...it might add to some sort of performance to the rear of the car..just guessing....
Good theory, I'll buy that.

henry
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by henry » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:25 am

BwajSF wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 am
bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies,that makes a lot of sense. I didn't doubt, just wondered if I missed some obvious clues (or was just too dense!)
enri_the_red wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:50 pm
According to the italian version of motorsport.com ( https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/diret ... a/4311502/ ) , last December the FIA issued a technical directive stating that the two wastegate exhausts must blow in the same way
but if the bottom pipe makes an almost 90 degree bend, with the top one much more straightforward, no doubt 'due to packaging /geometry', how would you stop them? Sure I suppose FIA/rivals could argue it is a sort of simple fluidic valve, but would that really fly?
Or Simple... This might be looked at as some perfume bottle concept...
The Upper Pipe is where the fast moving gases go through.. since the lower one is at 90 degrees the fast moving exhaust gases in the upper tube might cause the atmospheric air to be pulled inside from the lower tube and mix with the fast moving gases in the upper tube causing the temperature of the wastegate to reduce a bit... and also since the atmospheric air is being pulled into the wastegate pipe...it might add to some sort of performance to the rear of the car..just guessing....
An interesting theory. It might be prohibited by this regulation:
5.8.2 Engine exhaust systems must have only a single turbine tailpipe exit and either one or two wastegate tailpipe exits which must all be rearward facing and through which all exhaust gases must pass. All and only the turbine exit exhaust gases must pass through the turbine tailpipe and all and only the wastegate exhaust gases must pass through the wastegate tailpipe(s). None of the tailpipes may be contained within any of the other tailpipes.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

BwajSF
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:33 am

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by BwajSF » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:39 am

henry wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:25 am
BwajSF wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 am
bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies,that makes a lot of sense. I didn't doubt, just wondered if I missed some obvious clues (or was just too dense!) but if the bottom pipe makes an almost 90 degree bend, with the top one much more straightforward, no doubt 'due to packaging /geometry', how would you stop them? Sure I suppose FIA/rivals could argue it is a sort of simple fluidic valve, but would that really fly?
Or Simple... This might be looked at as some perfume bottle concept...
The Upper Pipe is where the fast moving gases go through.. since the lower one is at 90 degrees the fast moving exhaust gases in the upper tube might cause the atmospheric air to be pulled inside from the lower tube and mix with the fast moving gases in the upper tube causing the temperature of the wastegate to reduce a bit... and also since the atmospheric air is being pulled into the wastegate pipe...it might add to some sort of performance to the rear of the car..just guessing....
An interesting theory. It might be prohibited by this regulation:
5.8.2 Engine exhaust systems must have only a single turbine tailpipe exit and either one or two wastegate tailpipe exits which must all be rearward facing and through which all exhaust gases must pass. All and only the turbine exit exhaust gases must pass through the turbine tailpipe and all and only the wastegate exhaust gases must pass through the wastegate tailpipe(s). None of the tailpipes may be contained within any of the other tailpipes.
Yup.. But that a rule focused more to direct only the wastegate gases through the tailpipe.. and not the engine exhaust... Besides by definition the exhaust design doesnt pass anything more than the what is mentioned in the rule... its just that the atmospheric air gets pulled in as a result of design so i guess its kinda grey area..
I believe such exhaust design has huge advantage in long straights... where the engine revs to its peaks exhaust gases keeps rushing out with monstrous velocity both from turbine and engine.. and hence this design might aid on straights... and since in corners its more of treading the throttle it wouldnt be much of an effect...
but again.. we all are just swinging the dark.. so any swing is a good swing...

Blackout
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF72H Speculation Thread

Post by Blackout » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 am