General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
foneFanatiq
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by foneFanatiq » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:11 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:51 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:00 pm
The morale and mood can't be better now than it was going in to the start of the Mclaren deal.
I disagree. Now they have recent history to make them hopeful. Both the team and Honda know how powerful their PU was and how much they improved upon that. Pre-Mclaren they could just fantasize.
Hopeful maybe, but id say its closer to wishful. Pre-Mclaren they did fantasize and the mood and morale would have been sky high. Higher than it is today.
Nathan. Why are you a hater ?

Espresso
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Espresso » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:33 pm

a little add-on to complete the serie. An onboard cockpit photo with Max Verstappen.
Image

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:40 pm

foneFanatiq wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:11 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:51 pm

I disagree. Now they have recent history to make them hopeful. Both the team and Honda know how powerful their PU was and how much they improved upon that. Pre-Mclaren they could just fantasize.
Hopeful maybe, but id say its closer to wishful. Pre-Mclaren they did fantasize and the mood and morale would have been sky high. Higher than it is today.
Nathan. Why are you a hater ?
I wouldn't say hater fone (may I call you fone ?) I have always been behind Honda. But they just wont be as high as some want/expect. I wanted the Honda Mclaren partnership to work as much as anyone.
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Lewis v2.0

foneFanatiq
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by foneFanatiq » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:16 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:40 pm
foneFanatiq wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:11 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm


Hopeful maybe, but id say its closer to wishful. Pre-Mclaren they did fantasize and the mood and morale would have been sky high. Higher than it is today.
Nathan. Why are you a hater ?
I wouldn't say hater fone (may I call you fone ?) I have always been behind Honda. But they just wont be as high as some want/expect. I wanted the Honda Mclaren partnership to work as much as anyone.
I disagree with that. We will certainly find out. But you can’t just write them off due to unfortunate events of the past. They are now with 2 teams who let them build a PU that they want without restrictions. (For the most part).

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by turbof1 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:28 am

It wouldn't be smart to believe Red Bull does not put restrictions in. That even happens inside works teams lilke Ferrari and Mercedes, where the aero/chassis departments and engine departments put together the various benefits and disadvantages of certain engine upgrades, looking if a certain increase in bodywork bulkness is worth the aero loss compared to the PU performance gain.

There will not be a free pass for Honda to do whatever it wants. The question will rather be how well these 2 companies can work together and work towards the common goal of overall performance.

For instance for the 2014 season Mercedes ditched rather late in the development the ordinary exhaust manifold for a much more compact log exhaust (which supposedly had a slight loss of power) which brought more aerodynamic performance to the table (because of better packaging). But, throughout the years they also increased the airbox intake as the extra PU performance outweighted the downforce loss of the rear wing.
#AeroFrodo

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:08 am

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:28 am
It wouldn't be smart to believe Red Bull does not put restrictions in. That even happens inside works teams lilke Ferrari and Mercedes, where the aero/chassis departments and engine departments put together the various benefits and disadvantages of certain engine upgrades, looking if a certain increase in bodywork bulkness is worth the aero loss compared to the PU performance gain.

There will not be a free pass for Honda to do whatever it wants. The question will rather be how well these 2 companies can work together and work towards the common goal of overall performance.

For instance for the 2014 season Mercedes ditched rather late in the development the ordinary exhaust manifold for a much more compact log exhaust (which supposedly had a slight loss of power) which brought more aerodynamic performance to the table (because of better packaging). But, throughout the years they also increased the airbox intake as the extra PU performance outweighted the downforce loss of the rear wing.
That claim not mean that.
Ferrari aero team wanted a small engine and was planning to gain with aero what They lost in power then they were almost slowest at straights at 2014.
Of course Redbull will want specific things from Honda. But they let them(Honda) to do what they see good for performance gain.
I think, in this area, aero team must let engine departmant to do what engine needed. Then they can do outside of car from fia regulations and innerside of car from engine specifications. Engine is rulemaker of inside of car for aero department. Especially in the era of this formula which makes engine performance takes so important part of overall performance.

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by turbof1 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:10 am

etusch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:08 am
I think, in this area, aero team must let engine departmant to do what engine needed. Then they can do outside of car from fia regulations and innerside of car from engine specifications. Engine is rulemaker of inside of car for aero department. Especially in the era of this formula which makes engine performance takes so important part of overall performance.
The aero and engine departments shouldn't give eachother free reign to whatever they want. That never will end well. Both need to work together in unison, not as separate blocks. This is one of the fundamentals why Mercedes won consistently during this drive train era. So no, the aero team shouldn't just leave the PU to the engine department, and the engine department shouldn't just leave aero the the fluid dynamics department. Rather they both have to work to the same common nominator: outright performance.

That's what needs to happen between Red Bull and Honda as well, and which I also believe worked quite well already for Toro Rosso. There is less 'ego' involved on both sides.
#AeroFrodo

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:05 pm

Red Bull and Toro Rosso will use the same version engine throughout 2019

Talking about Honda's 2019 goals, Tanabe said, In simple terms, our goal is to get better results for both teams than for 2018. For our partnership with Toro Rosso, this means finishing the teams championship higher, getting more points, moving more durably, and perhaps repeating the result in Bahrain last year or doing better.
https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... k/4335842/

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:46 pm

etusch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:05 pm
Red Bull and Toro Rosso will use the same version engine throughout 2019

Talking about Honda's 2019 goals, Tanabe said, In simple terms, our goal is to get better results for both teams than for 2018. For our partnership with Toro Rosso, this means finishing the teams championship higher, getting more points, moving more durably, and perhaps repeating the result in Bahrain last year or doing better.
https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... k/4335842/
More translation :wink: :

Formula 1 engine supplier Honda gets a big challenge in 2019, now that the brand does not have to supply one but two teams with power sources.
The smaller formation from Faenza will in any case have access to the same engine specification as the top team this year, according to Honda's technical director Toyoharu Tanabe. "Yes, that is the most logical method and Honda feels the best. In addition, the regulations stipulate that we must supply all teams with equivalent material. It is not just about the same technical hardware. We also treat them equally in terms of the means to run our operation and in terms of development. This is a fairly simple procedure since the two teams are part of the same family and because we can work together with Red Bull Technology. "That does not mean that Toro Rosso can not still be sacrificed to test updates, at the cost of grid penalties.

When asked what the goals for the 2019 season are, Tanabe replied: "The usual difficult question! Put simply, our goal is to achieve better results with both teams than in 2018. For Toro Rosso this means that we want to finish higher in the constructors' championship, want to score more points, want to be more reliable and maybe even want the result of Bahrain. to equal, or even want to do even better. At the moment, however, we do not yet know what to expect, because as in any sport our result also depends on what the opponents do. "

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ivanlesk » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 pm

Aren't they obligated by rules to deliver same engine to all customers?

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by sn809 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:13 am

ivanlesk wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 pm
Aren't they obligated by rules to deliver same engine to all customers?
They have to give option of same engine for example Renault gave option of spec C(edit
Last year) but only RB used it, but option was available for Mclaren and Renault. So Toro Rosso and RB will have option of using new trial engine but only TR will use it

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ivanlesk » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 am

Wasn't referring to that. They said that they will give to both teams same engine (and underlined that tr performance matters to them) and I thought that that implies by rules.

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Capharol » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:42 am

ivanlesk wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 am
Wasn't referring to that. They said that they will give to both teams same engine (and underlined that tr performance matters to them) and I thought that that implies by rules.
No it doesn't really TR can drive with a 3.6 spec engine whilest RB still drives with a 3.4 spec, as Long as the egnine applies to the rules the engines can be completly different (although it would be uncommon if two Teams drive with the same manufacturer)

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Big Tea » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:12 pm

Finishing will be important to Red Bull, Points to STR, so what is to stop them using the same engine but just running the STR 'harder'?

They benefit from being able to study and refine the parameters to pass to the Boss team, while having a little extra to get more points for STR.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

sn809
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by sn809 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Wouter wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:46 pm
etusch wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:05 pm
Red Bull and Toro Rosso will use the same version engine throughout 2019

Talking about Honda's 2019 goals, Tanabe said, In simple terms, our goal is to get better results for both teams than for 2018. For our partnership with Toro Rosso, this means finishing the teams championship higher, getting more points, moving more durably, and perhaps repeating the result in Bahrain last year or doing better.
https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... k/4335842/
More translation :wink: :

. This is a fairly simple procedure since the two teams are part of the same family and because we can work together with Red Bull Technology. "That does not mean that Toro Rosso can not still be sacrificed to test updates, at the cost of grid penalties.

"
That is the most important bit from the translation Wouter did, thanks for that btw to Eusch and Wouter. It clarifies more than one type of engine will be available and TR might be used to test it.