2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Maplesoup
18
Joined: 18 Jan 2019, 19:25

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Francesc wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 21:03
vantage87 wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 19:16
this is the main problem in the williams , it looks like something is overheating
Same story as last season??
Last year they copied the Mercedes cooling concept but failed miserably and had to run in every race with a huge cooling outlet and even with that it wasn't enough as soon as they followed a car for more than 2 laps or so they had to back off because the car would get too hot. It was said it costed them 8 tenths per lap.

WTH they've been doing...
Perhaps the overheating issue at the back is a symptom of their "fundamental issue" which would lead me to believe that they have an issue getting air into the side pods.

So could be Front wing, suspension or barge boards. I would perhaps bet on their suspension geometry causing the air to either go over or under their sidepods they do have a rather high top wishbone compared to other teams. But I would imagine that this would of been pretty apparent in the wind tunnel or CFD so perhaps its something to do with how the aero behaves while going round corners which is where Mclaren fell down last year.

This is of course a guess at best, until Williams come out and tell us exactly what is wrong we won't know for sure.

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I'd personally rather believe that they simply 'compensate' tiny side pod intakes by opening up huge at the back.
not neccesarily because they have a problem in feeding air into the sidepods, or that they'd have a problem with the front wing to aim stuff there.
i rather think they simply have a different philosophy on how they use the front wing and 'simply' put more air flow around with their concept.
a 'side effect' of that is that there is less air going into the sidepods and thus there is a need for more cooling, thus again, opening up at the back.

it doesn't neccesarily mean there is an actual 'flaw' there. I mean, there is a big flaw, but i genuinly doubt its as simple as 'that's it!' as they would
have figured that out themselves much better. Matter of fact, again, paddy actually confirmed that a while ago by stating Williams doesn't dig in
deep enough to fix their problems.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

skwdenyer
13
Joined: 17 May 2010, 00:00

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Maplesoup wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:45
Francesc wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 21:03
vantage87 wrote:
17 Mar 2019, 19:16
this is the main problem in the williams , it looks like something is overheating
Same story as last season??
Last year they copied the Mercedes cooling concept but failed miserably and had to run in every race with a huge cooling outlet and even with that it wasn't enough as soon as they followed a car for more than 2 laps or so they had to back off because the car would get too hot. It was said it costed them 8 tenths per lap.

WTH they've been doing...
Perhaps the overheating issue at the back is a symptom of their "fundamental issue" which would lead me to believe that they have an issue getting air into the side pods.

So could be Front wing, suspension or barge boards. I would perhaps bet on their suspension geometry causing the air to either go over or under their sidepods they do have a rather high top wishbone compared to other teams. But I would imagine that this would of been pretty apparent in the wind tunnel or CFD so perhaps its something to do with how the aero behaves while going round corners which is where Mclaren fell down last year.

This is of course a guess at best, until Williams come out and tell us exactly what is wrong we won't know for sure.
Ah, so perhaps the fundamental problem is that the FIA forced them to change their front suspension, which in turn was the "fix" for airflow issues?

Maplesoup
18
Joined: 18 Jan 2019, 19:25

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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skwdenyer wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 01:10
Maplesoup wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:45

Perhaps the overheating issue at the back is a symptom of their "fundamental issue" which would lead me to believe that they have an issue getting air into the side pods.

So could be Front wing, suspension or barge boards. I would perhaps bet on their suspension geometry causing the air to either go over or under their sidepods they do have a rather high top wishbone compared to other teams. But I would imagine that this would of been pretty apparent in the wind tunnel or CFD so perhaps its something to do with how the aero behaves while going round corners which is where Mclaren fell down last year.

This is of course a guess at best, until Williams come out and tell us exactly what is wrong we won't know for sure.
Ah, so perhaps the fundamental problem is that the FIA forced them to change their front suspension, which in turn was the "fix" for airflow issues?
I believe the FIA forced them to remove the 7th item in their suspension which looked like a flow conditioner off the back of their lower wishbone. From what i understand the high upper wishbone was judged legal, so the actual geometry of their suspension hasn't changed just had to remove a small aero part.

munudeges
-14
Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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To have two cars in two years that exhibit what the team calls 'fundamental problems' is pretty astonishing.

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FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 12:57
To have two cars in two years that exhibit what the team calls 'fundamental problems' is pretty astonishing.
Why?

They never figured out what the fundamental problem with the previous car was

garygph
4
Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 14:25

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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FW17 wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 13:30
munudeges wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 12:57
To have two cars in two years that exhibit what the team calls 'fundamental problems' is pretty astonishing.
Why?

They never figured out what the fundamental problem with the previous car was
I am stunned that a F1 team would not make sure they understood what the problem was before even dreaming of another car!

Espresso
7
Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 17:40
...
it doesn't neccesarily mean there is an actual 'flaw' there. I mean, there is a big flaw, but i genuinly doubt its as simple as 'that's it!' as they would
have figured that out themselves much better. Matter of fact, again, paddy actually confirmed that a while ago by stating Williams doesn't dig in deep enough to fix their problems.
That was the fundamental flaw of Paddy, digging in to fix the problem.
Williams has dug themselves in very very deep, almost near the center of the earth. Cemented rock steady & unmovable.
:arrow: Paddy should have dug them out prior to try to change/improve it all. That's waht you can blame on Paddy.

The final drop to oust Paddy was 'using' the illegal car (7th wishbone element and mirror detail). Which actually were minor elements easily to be removed/adapted without real impact on the car. Almost like someone purposely added thes gallow elements....sneaky and deliberately to hang Paddy....

It seems to me Williams been focusing on nice tiny cosmetic details without addressing the fundamental flaws in the design. This is a core issue and for me the responsibility of the whole management.

As long as they're not willing to change/adapt to the changing world....Williams is slowly transforming into an ancient relic. It's a shame to see the demise of once a great team unfolding...
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Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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FW17 wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 13:30
munudeges wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 12:57
To have two cars in two years that exhibit what the team calls 'fundamental problems' is pretty astonishing.
Why?

They never figured out what the fundamental problem with the previous car was
and that's exactly where the problem is.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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charliesmithhd
67
Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 17:53

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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last years mclaren had a fundamental problem which was that the distance between the front wheels and sidepods was too close for the aero to manipulate the air, leading to insufficient air being directed to the rear, is there a chance that williams had the same problem? It looks like a reasonably complex car, but it struggles at mid speed corners the most

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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If they haven't figured out last year's problem(s), it can be anybody's guess.

Ralf Schumacher made a damning statement about Williams.

http://www.grandprix.com/news/williams- ... acher.html

Williams being run with fear and terror says Ralf Schumacher

Ralf Schumacher, who won all six of his F1 victories with the British team, thinks the problem at Williams could be its management.

He told Germany's motorsport-total.com that the struggling Oxfordshire based outfit currently is being is run with "fear and terror". Schumacher, 43, said it was the same as when Sir Frank Williams ran the team alone in the 70s.

"Williams has a very special leadership style. As long as Patrick Head was there it was balanced," he said.

"It's a style of leadership from the 70s and 80s, a bit of a reign of fear and terror. It's a shame, because I think people need to be motivated."

Head, though, has long retired, and the team is now run by Sir Frank's daughter Claire.

"With the current structure, Williams cannot get the best out of its employees, because there is no team cohesion," Schumacher said. "The engineers are working against each other more than with each other.

"Unfortunately, Claire has kept her father's habits, and she should certainly wonder if that is the right job for her. Perhaps Williams' team management needs to be restructured," he added.

"A man (Paddy Lowe) who has just been fired was very successful at other teams, and even he failed to put Williams back on track. That's enough to start asking questions," said Ralf.
on gpupdate.net
Ralf Schumacher lashes out: "Williams is not open to criticism at all"

If it is up to the brother of record F1 champion Michael Schumacher, former Formula 1 driver and himself six-time Grand Prix winner Ralf Schumacher, then the Williams team would change course as quickly as possible. The German, now 43 years old, drove for the Williams stable in the past and noticed the crew struggling.

According to Schumi II , Williams' demise has to do with the way they work. Schumacher believes team boss Claire Williams would do better to pursue a different approach.

"Williams' leadership style dates back to the 1970s, 1980s. For them, it is purely about power. Fear reigns. and that's unbelievably unfortunate. They don't seem to notice that people perform better if they are motivated, so they get the chance to develop ", Schumacher says in the podcast of Formel1.de .

"At Williams, employees have to work hard day-in, day-out. They don't get the time to have fun, and it's out of the question to question the leadership of the bosses. At some point, you just end up on a dead track."

Schumacher cites the recently departed Paddy Lowe as an example. "Paddy was incredibly successful in another system," he refers to his time as Mercedes technical director. Schumacher does not know whether Claire Williams should pack her bags. "She has to decide for herself. Maybe a new approach needs to be introduced within the team."
Ralf Schumacher slamming in some wisdom on the table and bringing in a good point regarding Lowe.

I have zero doubt that that's the truth. All the inside news from Williams, morale on rock bottom, HRM a joke, targets being missed, thinking they can fix things with 2 changes, and then starting a blame culture and blaming everything with a lowblow to Paddy Lowe, goes hand in hand exactly with what Schumacher is saying here. Williams (leadership) is one of arrogance. They think they're better and know better. I remember well what happened with Hill back when he won the championship with them, and also with Villeneuve.
People in the past mentioned Ferrari is ruthless in that regard - remember Prost being fired for calling the car a 'tractor'. But to be honest, i think Williams might be far, far worse. Atleast Ferrari has their heritage and being Ferrari to 'boast'. What does Williams have but failure in the past decades?

BTW on totally another point though, i see the Rokit site finally is up and running.
Matter of fact, i think i might order a phone from them and see what's up.
Looks like pretty decent deal, and i'm curious on how it compares to the usual giants in the industry.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

User avatar
Scorpaguy
6
Joined: 04 Mar 2010, 05:05

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Re Rokit...

Just noticed on the 2019 Williams F1 Shop that "Rokit" is not depicted on the 2019 team wear???

The 2019 team wear is still as yet unavailable (preorder available now for 032919 shipping) but is depicted on the site. The advertisement icon with George and Robert modeling such has "Rokit" clearly displayed...but when you navigate to the actual merchandise, "Rokit" is no where to be seen???

Seems a bit strange for a primary (or at least significant) sponsor to be left off of team wear.

Sevach
1043
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
23 Mar 2019, 14:19
Snipetty, snip.
That's a very relevant point.

Williams certainly had a culture of fear regarding drivers (including firing WDCs) and lost serious design talent over the years with this cutthroat attitude (starting with mr Newey).

Espresso
7
Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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adrianjordan wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 19:58
As a long time fan of Williams, the current state of the team saddens me.
...
Well at least they're trying to improve, they've got a hiring streak going on.
Let's see if Williams can get all the noses pointing into the same direction.

If Williams can get things 're-organized' the right way and find the right concept we might see some positive changes during the season.
For those interested just check their job-listings

Here the car related jobs:
  • BATTERY BUILD TECHNICIAN
  • CONTROL SYSTEMS ENGINEER
  • ELECTRICAL ENGINEER - BATTERY SYSTEMS
  • ELECTRONICS HARDWARE DESIGN ENGINEER
  • MODELLING AND SIMULATION ENGINEER
  • PRINCIPAL ENGINEER - BATTERY DESIGN
  • SENIOR DESIGN ENGINEER
  • ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS ENGINEER
  • SENIOR ELECTRICAL INTEGRATION ENGINEER
  • SENIOR ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS ENGINEER
  • AERODYNAMICIST / GRADUATE AERODYNAMICIST
  • SENIOR AERODYNAMIC DESIGNER / AERODYNAMIC DESIGNER
  • AERODYNAMIC FACILITIES R&D ENGINEER
  • AERODYNAMIC SOFTWARE ENGINEER
  • WIND TUNNEL METHODOLOGY ENGINEER
  • AERODYNAMIC ELECTRONIC SYSTEM ENGINEER
  • SENIOR AERODYNAMICIST
  • SENIOR CFD METHODOLOGY ENGINEER / CFD METHODOLOGY ENGINEER
  • STRESS ENGINEER
  • 5 AXIS PROGRAMMER MACHINIST
  • SENIOR AERODYNAMICS SURFACE DESIGNER / AERODYNAMIC SURFACE DESIGNER
  • JIGS AND FIXTURES DESIGN ENGINEER
  • DESIGN ENGINEER
  • DESIGN ENGINEER COMPOSITE STRUCTURES
  • JIGS AND FIXTURES DESIGN - TEAM LEADER
Disclaimer: Just remember Manoah2U post (3 post back) before applying....:
"At Williams, employees have to work hard day-in, day-out. They don't get the time to have fun, and it's out of the question to question the leadership of the bosses. At some point, you just end up on a dead track."
(Ralf Schumacher)

...and yes somewhere there is 1 HRM post available... :mrgreen:
(Edit: [-o< sorry for the caps; copy/paste from the Williams website...)
Last edited by Espresso on 26 Mar 2019, 12:38, edited 8 times in total.
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Capharol
21
Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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They start a complete new team it seems

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