Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

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henry
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:57 am

Deleted. Unnecessary.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by turbof1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:38 am

diffuser wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 am
Pretty sure the labour party voted no for the most part in the referendum. Which brings me back to the original point. Referendums, in general, should require a 60% to pass. Otherwise you run the risk of paralysis.
I have been told by some persons it wasn't a wise choice to put the decision at the people at all. A lot of sentiment came with the vote. That's great if you want to decide about a statue of a controversial person, but when it comes down to a critical marco-economic/societal decision, sentiment is really something to avoid.

Labour also has a leader who wants out of the union, badly. I think the paralysis is complete when there are not only fundamental differences of opinion between parties, but inside the parties themselves as well.

I also don't see how that division gets solved. I personally think there has to be a new referendum, but a new referendum will also probably cause the British people to be divided even more. New elections will not bring a solution either as the parlement is unable to agree on anything on the political spectrum. Great Brittain is fractured down to its core.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:50 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:38 am
diffuser wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 am
Pretty sure the labour party voted no for the most part in the referendum. Which brings me back to the original point. Referendums, in general, should require a 60% to pass. Otherwise you run the risk of paralysis.
I have been told by some persons it wasn't a wise choice to put the decision at the people at all. A lot of sentiment came with the vote. That's great if you want to decide about a statue of a controversial person, but when it comes down to a critical marco-economic/societal decision, sentiment is really something to avoid.

Labour also has a leader who wants out of the union, badly. I think the paralysis is complete when there are not only fundamental differences of opinion between parties, but inside the parties themselves as well.

I also don't see how that division gets solved. I personally think there has to be a new referendum, but a new referendum will also probably cause the British people to be divided even more. New elections will not bring a solution either as the parlement is unable to agree on anything on the political spectrum. Great Brittain is fractured down to its core.
It seems to have become the default position of those who were NF.

And I do not by any means mean all brexit voters are or were NF, and acknowledge their right to vote any way they wish.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:05 pm

The issue is that the UK's principal print media are both heavily anti-EU with some others also pushing that line. There are a lot of people who get their opinions from those newspapers and, latterly, from social media. Social media has been shown to be very powerful and very easy to game. The result is a large number of the population were basically conditioned to hate the EU without any real understanding of why. Sadly, there are a lot of people who still comment on the EU with things like "why did we fight the War if we're going to be in the EU?" and other mindless stupidity.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:39 pm

the last 2 posts show the bigotry and mendacity of those who denounce the 52%
my guess is that people saw the collective incompetence & unaccountability of the EU in recent years
news !!
you can't (if you believe in democracy) decide that the votes were a mistake and so must be replaced
got to love the people-hating anti-democratic liberals !!
liberal loony Tony Blair let into the UK 2 million 2004-accession EU migrants in 7 years when other countries didn't let in any
without this mad vanity-freak policy in the UK there would have been no traction for the Brexit movement to start


Brexit won't affect F1 because (if it is ever allowed to happen) there will be a customs union

the Withdrawal Bill is built on a CU or equivalent which will become permanent as the EU unilaterally determines this
65% of Labour MPs were elected by leave-voting constituencies - but the Party won't let them vote for that Bill

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:48 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:39 pm
the last 2 posts show the bigotry and mendacity of those who denounce the 52%
my guess is that people saw the collective incompetence & unaccountability of the EU in recent years
news !!
you can't (if you believe in democracy) decide that the votes were a mistake and so must be replaced
got to love the people-hating anti-democratic liberals !!
liberal loony Tony Blair let into the UK 2 million 2004-accession EU migrants in 7 years when other countries didn't let in any
without this mad vanity-freak policy in the UK there would have been no traction for the Brexit movement to start


Brexit won't affect F1 because (if it is ever allowed to happen) there will be a customs union

the Withdrawal Bill is built on a CU or equivalent which will become permanent as the EU unilaterally determines this
65% of Labour MPs were elected by leave-voting constituencies - but the Party won't let them vote for that Bill
incompetence & unaccountability of the EU ?
Hmmm. We can fix that, let our politicians sort it out, like they did Brexit.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:27 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:39 pm
the last 2 posts show the bigotry and mendacity of those who denounce the 52%
my guess is that people saw the collective incompetence & unaccountability of the EU in recent years
news !!
They saw what they were fed by their chosen media sources. The Daily Mail, for example, has spent the last decade (at least) saying how bad the EU is. They never do stories on the good stuff, however.

I'm pro-EU. Do I think the the EU is perfect? No. Do I think it's better than us going it alone? Yes. Do I fear for the UK's economic and political future, at least in the short/medium term? Yes. Do I think the UK will survive leaving? Of course. Will it thrive as well as it has in the EU? No, I don't think it will. So I think we are better off in than out. Do I fear immigration? No. Why should I? We're all just people who, by accident of birth have different names, language and culture. But we're all just people.

Time to stop hating each other. 8)
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by netoperek » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:29 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:39 pm
the last 2 posts show the bigotry and mendacity of those who denounce the 52%
my guess is that people saw the collective incompetence & unaccountability of the EU in recent years
news !!
you can't (if you believe in democracy) decide that the votes were a mistake and so must be replaced
got to love the people-hating anti-democratic liberals !!
liberal loony Tony Blair let into the UK 2 million 2004-accession EU migrants in 7 years when other countries didn't let in any
without this mad vanity-freak policy in the UK there would have been no traction for the Brexit movement to start


Brexit won't affect F1 because (if it is ever allowed to happen) there will be a customs union

the Withdrawal Bill is built on a CU or equivalent which will become permanent as the EU unilaterally determines this
65% of Labour MPs were elected by leave-voting constituencies - but the Party won't let them vote for that Bill
Are really so sure it's good to take such fate in Your people's wisdom as a whole?
I've spent a total of 1 year in UK, back in the day, when I was merely a MSc student. I've never met so many people unrightfully full of themselves out there. You know the kind - we're British, we're better, we're entitled, we hate imigrants, even though we have absolutely no ground to feel superior. Some of them were so incredibly stupid (not as a lack of inteligence), that I thought it's fascinating how it's possible for them to function in society with such enormous ignorance. And it has not been a "lower class" only problem. For instance, when I was going back to Poland, my GFs manager said she feels for us having to endure a whole day travel. She concluded that she is a smart woman, she watches discovery at times and they said Australia is very far and she took the effort to look on the map and concluded somehow that Austria must be the same as Australia - so with Poland being a similar distance away we have a full day travel ahead of us. Go figure. She was one of those replaying "immigrants are taking our jobs" tantrum, even though 8 out of 10 of her higher staff have been from abroad, on merit. After that we made a quiz in the pub to draw europe on napkin. It has been sad, seriously. Most people had absolutely no clue how europe looks like, even remotely. Quite a few were even convinced that UK is not in europe at all, more like far away from it. I've worked in few places back then and in most of them, getting news has been mostly looking at pictures in Daily Mail or the Sun. Everyone skipped the parts with text somehow, even though these are hardly a demanding lectures. Once in a team, where I have been the only foreigner, I got to fill the papers, as I made the least spelling mistakes and my English certainly isn't perfect... How many languages do a statistical Englishman know? Last time I checked 62% knew only English. To some degree. Do You really have such faith in economical and political wisdom of an entire nation? I'd imagine that in many cases of low voter turnout, the highest attendance would be within those easiest to manipulate. Those on the right side of certain distribution chart tend to have doubts more often.
Don't get me wrong, I've met quite a few fantastic, wise people out there. Absolutely amazing people, who had their ambitions and means to pursue them. One of them, incredibly smart engineer in Milton Keynes wanted me in his team, he took 2 days to check my skills at all the fields he would see me involved in, only for another man, who happened to have such power, to refuse me based on my nationality alone. He said that being Polish, I'm probably a thief and most definitely can't comunicate or have any skills whatsoever. it's not that it's all wrong in UK, it's just there's a lot of complacency, based on high living standard accessible without much effort or ambition mixed with impression of greatness based on glorious (imperial) past and weird sense of conservatism. Like with two tap sinks - It's not 19th century anymore, mixers were invented long ago and rat plague isn't really an issue, yet still You can see two taps in many places. Rem(a)inders of past greatness.
There's a lot of good in Britain and a lot of bad. From outsider's perspective, most of the bad things get from refusing to acknowledge that traditional British way is not always the best way (this, and the wide spread ignorance). UK is not as influential anymore nor the modern times allow for stubborn isolationism.
Do You, such an intelligent person, really think that British society as a whole have a solid ground to recognize "the collective incompetence & unaccountability of the EU" other than the narrative from the media? Do You think, it can do better job themselves? Do You think, UK can cope on their own? Should UK get rid of all of the migrants, including foregin professionals already living in UK in the process? You know that despite of whats on the news, 2004-accession EU migrants went not only to UK? Quite the contrary, actually. I should know, I'm from Poland. The first waves of immigration took some of the best people from developing countries and spread across the "old UE" in search for better opportunities. Do You really think, You'd be better off without those talented, brave and determined enough to seek chances far away from home? There were of course plenty of less respectable specimens in the mix, but that's the price of such bargain. One last question to consider - do You really think EU, a force much greater than UK alone, would happily bend the knee before UK and offer every economical freedoms and benfits UK like in EU, while conveniently leaving out everything that isn't liked? There's no logical scenario where UK would be in a position to negotiate successfully such deal, let alone processing the negotiations without a solid plan and even inner consensus of it's shape!

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:56 am

no-one is going to bear down on current migrants
it is shocking - and quite sinister (how wrong others in the EU are in this regard)
it is shocking that others think the job of the UK is to accommodate unlimited levels of migration from the EU or elsewhere

imo
Mad Moo Merkel caused the 52%
Merkel's crisis came from some EU countries failure to fund as agreed the camps in Turkey and Jordan for Syrian war refugees
the UK met its obligations - and more
Merkels judgement was polluted by sentiment and a desire to play to the gallery - like Madeleine Albright's years before
the 'refugees' were typically opportunistic young males not in need of refuge but wanting to access personal freedom
proved by the very high numbers in Germany that have now been found to be bogus in their claims for asylum

the British are accustomed being led by Britishers who are untrustworthy and corrupt by incompetence - that we accept
what the 52% tried to reject was being led by non-Britishers who are untrustworthy and corrupt by incompetence
as insofar as we ever joined the EU we hoped it would bring us a better quality of leadership

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by netoperek » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:57 pm

I agree Germany had a substantial role in provoking current immigration wave and handled it exceptionally bad. Problem is, that Germany are the local powerhouse, whether we like it or not and will always be able to push their agenda one way or another. Point should be to use it cleverly to ones benefit rather than Don Kichot'ing around with no real leverage. It's always been a similar scenario. Highly developed countries tend to have low population growth rate, ageing society and not enough workforce to keep their economies growing, so they provoke migration (or expand by colonialism ;)). It has worked nicely for Germany with Turks and eastern Europeans. As there is not much movement from those directions nowadays, they thought bringing people from further regions would work as good. This obviously backfired very badly, as cultural differences are too steep to mix societies as painlessly and newcomers weren't exactly as they were advertised. Large portion have their minds set on exploiting the system rather than contributing to it, To make things worse, its in interest of EU competitors to destabilize it economically and politically so they fuel the conflict by strenghtening xenophobia and polarisation of European societies. Local governments all across the europe won't risk doing the wise thing, as it's much safer and easier to play either of the extremes and fuel it with populistic BS, than look for solutions acknowledging that neither side of "conflict" is actually right. It's always politically risky to inform the society that world isn't actually black and white as that would mean they need to exit their comfort zones and rethink their position. That's not something that ordinary voter wants to hear and You can't win any election counting on intelectual's votes.
What EU offers in terms of leadership is soulless bureaucracy, and tireless standarisation and normification by compromise. It's obvious that it has to be controversial as an effect, as no universal ruling can be satisfying to all parties. They are a buffer, a low pass filter for emotion driven propaganda. That's a quality that either UK and Poland in it's current shape could very much do with.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:51 pm

Guys, is it a good idea to continue this thread? I can see some irreconcilable rifts being unintentionally formed and maybe some posters painted into a corner which will create a problem.

Should we leave it hang for the sake of the forum?
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by diffuser » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:48 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:56 am
no-one is going to bear down on current migrants
it is shocking - and quite sinister (how wrong others in the EU are in this regard)
it is shocking that others think the job of the UK is to accommodate unlimited levels of migration from the EU or elsewhere

imo
Mad Moo Merkel caused the 52%
Merkel's crisis came from some EU countries failure to fund as agreed the camps in Turkey and Jordan for Syrian war refugees
the UK met its obligations - and more
Merkels judgement was polluted by sentiment and a desire to play to the gallery - like Madeleine Albright's years before
the 'refugees' were typically opportunistic young males not in need of refuge but wanting to access personal freedom
proved by the very high numbers in Germany that have now been found to be bogus in their claims for asylum

the British are accustomed being led by Britishers who are untrustworthy and corrupt by incompetence - that we accept
what the 52% tried to reject was being led by non-Britishers who are untrustworthy and corrupt by incompetence
as insofar as we ever joined the EU we hoped it would bring us a better quality of leadership
I agree with your reason for the UKs discontent. I find it hard to believe that all 52% believed that . Also many of the Brits I've spoken to that voted for Brexit feel as if they were sold a bunch of lies.

It also sounds alot like cutting off your nose to spite your face...

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 am

diffuser wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:48 am
......I find it hard to believe that all 52% believed that . Also many of the Brits I've spoken to that voted for Brexit feel as if they were sold a bunch of lies.

It also sounds alot like cutting off your nose to spite your face...
any election outcome will be reversed if we respond to those who those who say it should because lies were involved
democracy exists only because we don't do that
majoritist voting systems as the UK and USA exists only because both sides play by the rules
democracy consists of choosing at agreed intervals which liars we prefer

we won't leave the EU
and (if we do) the only form of leaving would be/is a form where there are no import/export issues
the form in hand is the Switzerland model ie payment of an annual fee to be in the EU customs union
though this keeps the EU out of controlling Switzerland's society seemingly the EU won't/doesn't keep out

netoperek
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by netoperek » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:12 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 am
(...)
democracy consists of choosing at agreed intervals which liars we prefer

we won't leave the EU
and (if we do) the only form of leaving would be/is a form where there are no import/export issues
the form in hand is the Switzerland model ie payment of an annual fee to be in the EU customs union
though this keeps the EU out of controlling Switzerland's society seemingly the EU won't/doesn't keep out
That's a pretty accurate definition of democracy :)

I'd hope for Britain to stay in EU for both parties sake. I can't see a situation where a Switzerland's model is achievable. It looks like it's a) staying b) hard brexit c) some sort of soft brexit which is essentially option a) with a processing costs bill attached
Most scary thing is that (according to media in Poland at least) it looks like option b) seems most likely due to lack of a strong leadership with society support.
Back to the topic though, I think F1 teams will do just fine regardless. Business of that scale will always find a way out of the trouble. In case some dramatic scenarios take place, it's the HQs (aka the money) that will be moved in the first place.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:34 pm

There's not money in the EU. Something has to give,

I voted leave, I stick to that simply because I believe the EU is a sinking ship. Its going to end badly for the richer countries in the EU as they can't keep bailing out the poorer countries.

And it certainly doesn't help when I take time off from work and go shopping with my kids and wife and I see and hear groups of foreigners hanging around in the town centres. Thought they were all here to work?!

There's nothing wrong with immigration, but not on the scale we have seen in the last 15yrs in the UK.

And for the record , I work with 2 people who voted remain, they now both want to leave. So its not just remainers that have changed their minds like people have said here.
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