IndyCar Series

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
mzso
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by mzso » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:26 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 am
Unlikely as they'd still be at risk of flash burns in the event of a crash that released any fuel.
There's always the the fireproof mask. :)
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:19 am
Indeed. There's also a vent under the front - aiming air into the drivers face - to prevent buffeting on the helmet.
What does buffeting mean?

But I was thinking at least they could give back drivers their vision. Larger, wider visors. But they need to dispose of the foam shoulder pads on the sides and extend the glass for them to get back their peripheral vision as well.
I suspect it would decrease some of the utterly stupid looking collisions that happen these days, because the drivers have tunnel vision.

jjn9128
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by jjn9128 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:34 am

mzso wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:26 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:19 am
Indeed. There's also a vent under the front - aiming air into the drivers face - to prevent buffeting on the helmet.
What does buffeting mean?

But I was thinking at least they could give back drivers their vision. Larger, wider visors. But they need to dispose of the foam shoulder pads on the sides and extend the glass for them to get back their peripheral vision as well.
I suspect it would decrease some of the utterly stupid looking collisions that happen these days, because the drivers have tunnel vision.
Buffeting
noun
1.
the action of striking someone or something repeatedly and violently.
"the roofs have survived the buffeting of worse winds than this"
2.
AERONAUTICS
irregular oscillation of part of an aircraft, caused by turbulence.
In this case the recirculation bubble caused by the top of the screen comes down the back of the helmet pushing the head down and forward, but it's not steady state so it causes some vibrations. Getting some air to the front stabilises that.

They can't remove cockit padding... that's there to prevent the drivers necks snapping in a side impact...
#aerogandalf

mzso
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by mzso » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:33 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:34 am
They can't remove cockit padding... that's there to prevent the drivers necks snapping in a side impact...
Sure they can. Just replace that clunky thing with something better: improve the HANS, or add a foam collar as well.
At worst, they can split it up so it would only be present on the upper and lower frames of the sidewall while still allowing the drivers looking through.

Jolle
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Jolle » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm

mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:33 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:34 am
They can't remove cockit padding... that's there to prevent the drivers necks snapping in a side impact...
Sure they can. Just replace that clunky thing with something better: improve the HANS, or add a foam collar as well.
At worst, they can split it up so it would only be present on the upper and lower frames of the sidewall while still allowing the drivers looking through.
using your shoulders for side impact doesn't work. You'll not just snap your collarbones, but probably also your neck.

But why? to see the drivers better or to give the driver better view? The side padding is just low enough to give the drivers enough visibility and that we can't see the helmets like "the good old days", well... tough luck I guess.

mzso
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by mzso » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:22 pm

Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
But why? to see the drivers better or to give the driver better view? The side padding is just low enough to give the drivers enough visibility and that we can't see the helmets like "the good old days", well... tough luck I guess.
Tunnel vision is not good visibility.

Speaking of... In the good old days you could also seethe shoulders and the arms and the movements the drivers made.

Jolle
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Jolle » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:36 pm

mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:22 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
But why? to see the drivers better or to give the driver better view? The side padding is just low enough to give the drivers enough visibility and that we can't see the helmets like "the good old days", well... tough luck I guess.
Tunnel vision is not good visibility.

Speaking of... In the good old days you could also seethe shoulders and the arms and the movements the drivers made.
guess you've never been in a race car? even in a lower class touring car you only have vision for about 90 degrees from left to right. never been a problem.

and yes, drivers were exposed more in the good old days, you know, those days when they broke their neck (Wendlinger, Ratzenberger and others)

etusch
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by etusch » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:40 am


strad
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by strad » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm

Wendlinger, and Ratzenberger and Dale Earnhardt died from basilar skull fractures. Not from low side impact structures. Hence the implementation of the new neck restraint devices.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Jolle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:52 pm

strad wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm
Wendlinger, and Ratzenberger and Dale Earnhardt died from basilar skull fractures. Not from low side impact structures. Hence the implementation of the new neck restraint devices.
Of which the high cockpit sides are part of. A side impact with only a HANS wouldn’t save you. A HANS is for forward motion.

FrukostScones
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by FrukostScones » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:40 pm

strad wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm
Wendlinger, and Ratzenberger and Dale Earnhardt died from basilar skull fractures. Not from low side impact structures. Hence the implementation of the new neck restraint devices.
no.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

strad
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by strad » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 pm

Yes It was what's called a basilar skull fractures which means the G forces plucked their heads off their spine like a grape off a vine. Very Very Nasty. It's why they invented the HANS device. They did not hit their heads or necks on the side of the cockpit.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

strad
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by strad » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:44 pm

Jolle the HANS also limits how far you head can move laterally. Try one on and you'll see.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

jjn9128
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:31 pm

strad wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 pm
Yes It was what's called a basilar skull fractures which means the G forces plucked their heads off their spine like a grape off a vine. Very Very Nasty. It's why they invented the HANS device. They did not hit their heads or necks on the side of the cockpit.
The HANS was brought in after the cockpit sides started getting taller!?! The high cockpit sides have foam within them to decelerate the driver's head in side-on impacts (and rear)... the foam inside the head restraint is even selected based on the atmospheric conditions to maintain the correct attenuation. They can't put foam in front of the driver so the HANS is there to decelerate the head in a head-on impact...

What do you think the high cockpit sides were for??? For snowflake drivers to rest their heads because they can't cope with the G-force like the real men who raced in the past????
#aerogandalf

Tommy Cookers
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Tommy Cookers » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:42 am

maybe the unfortunate Mr Earnhardt would have survived without the deceleration force from the 3.5 lb mass of his helmet

the 'bonedome myth' was started accidentally by test pilot George Welch wearing his old college football helmet
concerned with non-crash in-flight impacts - this work anyway preventing the aircraft thereafter giving impacts in use
and helmet mass undermined the design of the IAI Lavi combat aircraft (it produced non-impact injuries in normal flights)

though my only bit of crash experience found the 'armouring' effect apparently rather useful
the greatest deceleration occurs when a helmeted test head is stopped by a matching hemispherical test cavity

there's guesswork/prejudice regulation-driven design compromise because up to now there's always been such compromise
eg in some crash situations a light outer of eg ballistic nylon 'cloth' would be better than the heavy shell

Jolle
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Jolle » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:03 am

strad wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:44 pm
Jolle the HANS also limits how far you head can move laterally. Try one on and you'll see.
I've used a HANS, side motion is stoppend (when you're not in your seat) by the straps on the side of the helmet, then rotating your head and putting the wrong pressure on your collar bone. A HANS without additional side impact restraint (like in a formula car or FIA approved touring car seats) is dangerous with side impacts. It will twist your head in a unnatural way.

HANS is for front rotation, that's it.