Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by mzso » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:34 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm
So what's new in the Spec 3 that will debut next week? The obvious thing is probably some redesigned components to improve efficiency and packaging. I don't know if the new spec will have better qualifying modes, I doubt it just yet. I expect a good step in reliability and packaging, and a small step in power from increased efficiency.
Why do you imagine there's a new spec coming?

Marti_EF3
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:47 pm

mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:34 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm
So what's new in the Spec 3 that will debut next week? The obvious thing is probably some redesigned components to improve efficiency and packaging. I don't know if the new spec will have better qualifying modes, I doubt it just yet. I expect a good step in reliability and packaging, and a small step in power from increased efficiency.
Why do you imagine there's a new spec coming?
The Japanese supplier is coming for the second time this season with an improved power source, which should give Red Bull more power. That happened before for race four in Baku, and now at Grand Prix number eight on Paul Ricard.
In addition to the engine upgrade, Red Bull itself also comes with a number of updates to the car.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/57210694 ... 15/page-74

Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Alexf1 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:41 pm

What improvements are on spec 3? New turbo?

saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:31 pm

Resorting to a new power unit or anyone (new) of its 6 elements after only 4 races point more to a reliability concern than any improvement.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Another power track. Lets see if the engine shows better here.
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hollus
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by hollus » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:28 pm

A reminder to everyone that this is the PU thread, one of the threads we try to keep clean(er).
Please keep car pace, driver comparisons, other PUs, etc out of this thread. There are the race threads, the team threads, the general honda thread, etc. for that.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

Hkbruin2
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hkbruin2 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:31 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:06 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:20 pm
Another power track. Lets see if the engine shows better here.
Its pretty clear Honda are now behind all 3 manufacturers. Renault might be ahead of Merc. Spec 3 better deliver and must be brought forward asap. If no spec 3, expect Honda cars to be undressed and humilated.
We know that Honda’s development rate is accelerated and is the only manufacturer that has an aggressive plan to introduce 4 PU specs within this season. I haven’t heard such talk from other camps. Yes, they have the most catching up to do, but I have confidence in their current processes and their operations now seem robust and capable.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:00 am

saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:31 pm
Resorting to a new power unit or anyone (new) of its 6 elements after only 4 races point more to a reliability concern than any improvement.
Incorrect. Red Bull pre season made several remarks that they would encourage Honda to bring any development that would provide a benefit and they would take the penalties whenever feasible to accelerate development. This is exactly what's happening. Notice how every engine change has been for a more powerful/improved unit.

To be honest, their development pace was impressive last year but this year it's looking far more so.

saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:58 am

Honda development pace can only look and be described as impressive because they were the once with the most catching-up to do. Their effort was and still is directed at attaining and or being able to release more power with more reliability and with better fuel consumption during a race. Could be that their engine have the power to match the others but they could not use that power during a race reliability and fuel consumption wise.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:58 am
Honda development pace can only look and be described as impressive because they were the once with the most catching-up to do. Their effort was and still is directed at attaining and or being able to release more power with more reliability and with better fuel consumption during a race. Could be that their engine have the power to match the others but they could not use that power during a race reliability and fuel consumption wise.
Based on Max's comments in Canada post qualifying, it seems to be RBR's impression that Honda can run more aggressively during the race than Renault at the moment.
This sort of came out as an admission of sorts that Renault's PU in Canada actually looked powerful in qualifying.

I haven't heard any reports, complaints or radio conversations all season where RB or STR have need to fuel save drastically, if anything I've heard them allow higher modes to the drivers towards the end of the race. See Kvyat, Albon and Verstappen have all had very good ends to multiple GP's.

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Brake Horse Power » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:29 pm

Dutch television reported with the introduction of the latest spec that they are able to run the engine in highest mode for 50% of the race. If that's true than it's probably only thermal management as limiting factor..

carisi2k
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:52 am

Some people are just not getting how much difference in car concepts there are this year. None of us truly know if the differences in speed is due to downforce levels or actual engine performance but I think too many people are looking at the top speed charts and adding 1 and 1 together and coming to 3.

At Baku the Honda's were clearly better then the Renault powered cars on similar drag levels and somehow now they are bums. At Baku the Renaults couldn't pull a door off a barn which resulted in my favourite driver reversing in to kyvat after failing to overtake under brakes.

In conclusion the red bulls were clearly running more downforce then the Renault powered cars.

epo
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by epo » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:09 am

Didn't they have heat issues in Canada and therefor turned down the engine as there was not much to gain for Verstappen?

j.yank
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by j.yank » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:46 am

Recently Pierre Waché wrote about Canada race:

"Because the chasis is aerodynamically unstable, we have to put more downforce. As a result, if the drag (air resistance) increases, it loses to its rivals in power, which makes it even harder on straight. And although low speed corners are fine, they are not as fast as the Mercedes AMG.

In other words, in Canada, we were forced to land on a compromise that was not half-strong and strong in any way. So to speak, only the Red Bull RB15's weakness has come out".

To claim that because Renault had one of the best top speeds in Canada they have superior engine is to claim that because last season Hartley did several top speeds for Toro Rosso then Honda had the best engine. Pure nonsense. There is not direct connection between top speeds and engine performance. Many other factors influence the speed, and these factors lay outside of the topic of this tread.

restless
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by restless » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:58 am

Renault engines were toned down in Baku - it was known before the race.
I agree that so far Honda was looking for reliabilty and second half will be for performance - but this was stated from Tanabe himself, so why all the noise?!
Just get ready for the good stuff :).
Last edited by restless on Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.