General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:26 am

TOYOHARU TANABE
TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, HONDA RACING F1

Our win at the last Grand Prix in Austria was a positive step and a milestone for Honda F1 and the entire Honda company. On our return to the factory, we had a brief but enjoyable celebration with family and colleagues, before preparing to head off for the next round in Silverstone. The British Grand Prix is a home race for many F1 teams, including Aston Martin Red Bull Racing whose factory is in Milton Keynes. Honda’s F1 operation has its European base in the same city, just a short drive from the circuit, while Scuderia Toro Rosso has it’s wind tunnel facility in nearby Bicester. It means that many of our staff and their families will be at Silverstone to support us and to see the results of all their hard work on track. Silverstone is one of the classic tracks and is very popular with drivers, teams and fans. It presents a thrilling high speed test for car and driver, with its series of long, fast flowing corners, as well as having a tighter and more technical section. We will go to the track as well prepared as possible, determined to maintain the momentum from Austria.
https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... -prix.html

HPD
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HPD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:07 pm

I did not remember this haha

Image
cool

bigblue
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by bigblue » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:21 am

https://twitter.com/F1/status/114960858 ... 87/photo/1

Posting "Checking the oil slick and smoke screen are ready to deploy 😉" on twitter with a shot of the Red Bull (because of 007 branding for this race), is really tempting fate. Well, I guess it was from F1 and not the team, but now I'm worried !

bigblue
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by bigblue » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:25 am

https://grandprix.com/news/red-bull-pus ... appen.html
"We didn't hit our fist on the table, because I do not think that is the right approach with the Japanese. It is also logical that they are careful after the difficult years with McLaren.

"But we did say 'Come on, we are not going to drive around all year like we did in France'. In qualifying the engine was adjusted more aggressively and we had more power," Verstappen said.

mycadcae
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by mycadcae » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 am

can be a pipe hose supplier to the engine
Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

lio007
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by lio007 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:59 am

Future F1 throttle "pedal" ;-)

loner
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by loner » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:50 pm

no doubt now the spec 3 delivered and i understood Honda boasting the jet team and IHI people .. it was weird after France but things are pretty clear now i think with spec 4 LH will be under serious threat from MAX.
its a mega formula and a predator creeping .. HONDA + RBR + MAX.
para bellum.

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:02 pm

loner wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:50 pm
no doubt now the spec 3 delivered and i understood Honda boasting the jet team and IHI people .. it was weird after France but things are pretty clear now i think with spec 4 LH will be under serious threat from MAX.
its a mega formula and a predator creeping .. HONDA + RBR + MAX.
But Max must stay away from vettel who is driving with soul of maldonado

loner
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by loner » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 pm

etusch wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:02 pm
loner wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:50 pm
no doubt now the spec 3 delivered and i understood Honda boasting the jet team and IHI people .. it was weird after France but things are pretty clear now i think with spec 4 LH will be under serious threat from MAX.
its a mega formula and a predator creeping .. HONDA + RBR + MAX.
But Max must stay away from vettel who is driving with soul of maldonado
Image
Image
para bellum.

Pyrone89
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Pyrone89 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:36 pm

If RBR and Honda are smart they introduce spec 4 already with Torro Rosso in Hungary. Honda surely will already have 2 of the 4 units ready by then and since Honda does not fall under the mandatory factory shutdown it gives them 4 weeks extra to work on improving the mapping etc. after running it for the first time on track.

My view on the current PU relative to eachother: Maybe they can bridge the race spec HP gap, but Mercedes is still a long way ahead of the rest in my view if we look at more than HP.
1. Party mode: Merc clearly
2. Peak power race: Ferrari seems a bit faster
3. Fuel consumptiom: there is talk that the Merc is extremely efficient which allows them to run way lighter than the rest
4. Reliability: Mercedes again, Honda is still to do 7 races with 1 engine
5. Weight: unknown
6. Size: Honda, Ferrari and Mercedes seem equally good, Renault worse if we believe RBR
7. Coolimg: clear advantage for Ferrari, Honda also good vs Mercedes

ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:32 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:36 pm
If RBR and Honda are smart they introduce spec 4 already with Torro Rosso in Hungary. Honda surely will already have 2 of the 4 units ready by then and since Honda does not fall under the mandatory factory shutdown it gives them 4 weeks extra to work on improving the mapping etc. after running it for the first time on track.

My view on the current PU relative to eachother: Maybe they can bridge the race spec HP gap, but Mercedes is still a long way ahead of the rest in my view if we look at more than HP.
1. Party mode: Merc clearly
2. Peak power race: Ferrari seems a bit faster
3. Fuel consumptiom: there is talk that the Merc is extremely efficient which allows them to run way lighter than the rest
4. Reliability: Mercedes again, Honda is still to do 7 races with 1 engine
5. Weight: unknown
6. Size: Honda, Ferrari and Mercedes seem equally good, Renault worse if we believe RBR
7. Coolimg: clear advantage for Ferrari, Honda also good vs Mercedes
Austria was 32C. Germany Hockenheim is forecast to be around 27.2C. Hungary is forecast to be 30C. Unless it is that teams have solved their heating issues, the next two races might be reminiscent of Austria. Marko said Monza and Tanabe says there is an agreed upon cadence so Honda will likely stay on the current spec until after the break. Now if they find that Albon's high voltage issue is possible in the other PUs there maybe a component level swap and penalty for all the Honda powered cars.

I think many people thought RB Honda overachieved in Austria but Silverstone proved them wrong. The current spec still has rough edges yet despite that, the package, even when crippled and shedding parts still finished on pace. Incredible.

Singabule
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Singabule » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 am

Yamamoto talk to Agag regarding 2021 FE entry, given the fact that it would only cost them 30-40 mio a year do you think Honda would pull off F1 again? Or they want to ensure just in case relationships with RB turn sour, they can move easily. As both race would be under FIA banner, do they want to bargain to FIA to not change the current PU spec as it would be expensive to develop new concepts one?

ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:59 am

Honda's plan was to return for 10 years initially, and since Marko and Tost were able to convince Honda to stay, at least for another 5 years, even with a change in regulations. From what I hear Honda is in it for the long haul, to win the championship with Red Bull Racing. Until they do, they will stay until F1 becomes irrelevant to the world, which it won't ever. Might be a different formula, there might not even be tires, but Honda will compete as long as there is racing.

Part of this plan is to raise Japanese drivers. We have a fairly capable one in Nobu. Though he kind of is like a Stroll or Latifi, being grandson and heir of Matsushita (Panasonic). Tadasuke Makino and Nirei Fukuzumi are on the rise. Naoki Yamamoto, Buttons SuperGT teammate is also fast, but had a down year when Gasly almost won Super Formula.
Eventually Honda needs a car for it's drivers, so it's either a seat in STR or a pay driver role in another team. I doubt Honda would buy out STR, but it's possible Honda funds half the costs if they were to fund their driver. Maybe another midfield team may opt to switch, or we may see a push for more privateer customer teams.
I don't see this happening until after Red Bull Honda win a championship together. If they do by 2020, who knows maybe RBH will have their own FE entry in the future.

Pyrone89
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Pyrone89 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:54 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:59 am
Honda's plan was to return for 10 years initially, and since Marko and Tost were able to convince Honda to stay, at least for another 5 years, even with a change in regulations. From what I hear Honda is in it for the long haul, to win the championship with Red Bull Racing. Until they do, they will stay until F1 becomes irrelevant to the world, which it won't ever. Might be a different formula, there might not even be tires, but Honda will compete as long as there is racing.

Part of this plan is to raise Japanese drivers. We have a fairly capable one in Nobu. Though he kind of is like a Stroll or Latifi, being grandson and heir of Matsushita (Panasonic). Tadasuke Makino and Nirei Fukuzumi are on the rise. Naoki Yamamoto, Buttons SuperGT teammate is also fast, but had a down year when Gasly almost won Super Formula.
Eventually Honda needs a car for it's drivers, so it's either a seat in STR or a pay driver role in another team. I doubt Honda would buy out STR, but it's possible Honda funds half the costs if they were to fund their driver. Maybe another midfield team may opt to switch, or we may see a push for more privateer customer teams.
I don't see this happening until after Red Bull Honda win a championship together. If they do by 2020, who knows maybe RBH will have their own FE entry in the future.
Why not both. Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. Surely they can fund both.

Bullwinkle
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Bullwinkle » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:04 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:54 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:59 am
Honda's plan was to return for 10 years initially, and since Marko and Tost were able to convince Honda to stay, at least for another 5 years, even with a change in regulations. From what I hear Honda is in it for the long haul, to win the championship with Red Bull Racing. Until they do, they will stay until F1 becomes irrelevant to the world, which it won't ever. Might be a different formula, there might not even be tires, but Honda will compete as long as there is racing.

Part of this plan is to raise Japanese drivers. We have a fairly capable one in Nobu. Though he kind of is like a Stroll or Latifi, being grandson and heir of Matsushita (Panasonic). Tadasuke Makino and Nirei Fukuzumi are on the rise. Naoki Yamamoto, Buttons SuperGT teammate is also fast, but had a down year when Gasly almost won Super Formula.
Eventually Honda needs a car for it's drivers, so it's either a seat in STR or a pay driver role in another team. I doubt Honda would buy out STR, but it's possible Honda funds half the costs if they were to fund their driver. Maybe another midfield team may opt to switch, or we may see a push for more privateer customer teams.
I don't see this happening until after Red Bull Honda win a championship together. If they do by 2020, who knows maybe RBH will have their own FE entry in the future.
Why not both. Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. Surely they can fund both.
FE is pretty inexpensive as worldwide series go. That has been part of its "charm" to manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Nissan, Porsche, etc.

Just for comparison, here are some other series that Honda competes in, all in the same general price range as FE:

* IndyCar (around $25 Million USD annually). If as rumored Indycar adds a hybrid element for 2022, that price could rise
* IMSA Sports Cars (similar amount as Indycar for both a Factory DPI, Customer NSX GT3 and Civic TCR combined)
* SuperGT surely costs more than FE
* SuperFormula probably costs something less than Indycar
* MotoGP and WSBK. Not sure about costs of those but SuperMan's cape is not inexpensive.

None of this takes into account the staggering number of feeder series both in bikes and cars that Honda supports, There are more than a dozen of those in the US alone. And then there os the small fleet of cars Honda enters in the Pikes Peak Hillclimb every year.

So if a formula E program is $30 million, Honda could absorb it pretty easily. It could easily do something like what BMW did, which is to buy the naming rights to what had been the Andretti Autosport FE team. There are still teams on the grid that don't have strong ties to big manufacturers. Or Honda could start its own team.