2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm

Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:14 pm
izzy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:44 pm


The top teams will keep the best people and release the others. And with all the exceptions on top of $175m that's plenty to keep the star players in each department. Plus there's the infrastructure that they've spent zillions on already.

So imo although it's going to help reduce the gaps, it's not going actually change the order, apart from Max/Red Bull are coming anyway obviously and so are Charles/Mattia
IMO, if that happens, the FIA will tighten the rules.

This is Liberty Media, they want F1 to be like the NFL.
There is of course another great problem with a simple cap on R&D, if the amount of staff, apart from a few of the big shots, is part of your succes, lets say, you can put 200 engineers onto a problem instead of 180, a decrease in pay will make you more successful. Or outsource some of the engineering work to low wages countries: "Ferrari Design center New Delhi" or "AMG Mercedes Shanghai". Teams that are already part of a global presence, like Daimler or Fiat-Chrysler will (again) have a big advantage.
That is a possible issue. It would surprise me, there isn't any bulk manufacturing. Everything you make is in quantities of less than 10. Which makes offshoring difficult.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:27 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:14 pm


IMO, if that happens, the FIA will tighten the rules.

This is Liberty Media, they want F1 to be like the NFL.
There is of course another great problem with a simple cap on R&D, if the amount of staff, apart from a few of the big shots, is part of your succes, lets say, you can put 200 engineers onto a problem instead of 180, a decrease in pay will make you more successful. Or outsource some of the engineering work to low wages countries: "Ferrari Design center New Delhi" or "AMG Mercedes Shanghai". Teams that are already part of a global presence, like Daimler or Fiat-Chrysler will (again) have a big advantage.
That is a possible issue. It would surprise me, there isn't any bulk manufacturing. Everything you make is in quantities of less than 10. Which makes offshoring difficult.
Well, the many people who sit behind their workstation making drawings could sit anywhere.

diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:32 pm

Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:27 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:26 pm


There is of course another great problem with a simple cap on R&D, if the amount of staff, apart from a few of the big shots, is part of your succes, lets say, you can put 200 engineers onto a problem instead of 180, a decrease in pay will make you more successful. Or outsource some of the engineering work to low wages countries: "Ferrari Design center New Delhi" or "AMG Mercedes Shanghai". Teams that are already part of a global presence, like Daimler or Fiat-Chrysler will (again) have a big advantage.
That is a possible issue. It would surprise me, there isn't any bulk manufacturing. Everything you make is in quantities of less than 10. Which makes offshoring difficult.
Well, the many people who sit behind their workstation making drawings could sit anywhere.
They can but that is true today as well. Why did Honda create a plant in England for F1?

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:09 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:32 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:27 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm


That is a possible issue. It would surprise me, there isn't any bulk manufacturing. Everything you make is in quantities of less than 10. Which makes offshoring difficult.
Well, the many people who sit behind their workstation making drawings could sit anywhere.
They can but that is true today as well. Why did Honda create a plant in England for F1?
England doesn't qualify as a low wage country just yet :P

But the reason why they don't yet on a big scale because the companies who can (who have global presence) are not short on cash. Honda got an English base so it could work better with McLaren (and now RedBull). If F1 gets a new challenge, after being economical with fuel, getting economical with cash, the team that can reinvent how to do stuff like this, wins.

izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:23 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:14 pm
izzy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:44 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Well it means they will not have the money to pay all the best people. They will have to release, in the range of, 20% to 50%, of their staff. That will make recovering from mistakes,producing parts much longer and R & D much slower.
The top teams will keep the best people and release the others. And with all the exceptions on top of $175m that's plenty to keep the star players in each department. Plus there's the infrastructure that they've spent zillions on already.

So imo although it's going to help reduce the gaps, it's not going actually change the order, apart from Max/Red Bull are coming anyway obviously and so are Charles/Mattia
IMO, if that happens, the FIA will tighten the rules.

This is Liberty Media, they want F1 to be like the NFL.
Yes they'd like it to be, but as long as Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda are such great mates, there's only so much Liberty can do, and if they're really going to leave Ferrari with their veto that's another limitation. I mean the $175m wasn't as low as Liberty wanted was it? It's an amount that suits the big 4/5 basically

izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:30 pm

Jolle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:26 pm

There is of course another great problem with a simple cap on R&D, if the amount of staff, apart from a few of the big shots, is part of your succes, lets say, you can put 200 engineers onto a problem instead of 180, a decrease in pay will make you more successful. Or outsource some of the engineering work to low wages countries: "Ferrari Design center New Delhi" or "AMG Mercedes Shanghai". Teams that are already part of a global presence, like Daimler or Fiat-Chrysler will (again) have a big advantage.
Yes i don't see how it can ever be policed, when a global team as you say can buy things in from their own remote source and how can anyone else know what the real cost was?

Webber2011
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Location: Australia NSW

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Webber2011 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:31 am

diffuser wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:30 pm
Webber2011 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:14 am
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:50 am
Ricciardo is not proving him self in Renault after coming out from RedBull I strongly doubt either him nor Ferrari/Mec will take him in next year 2020.

If even ferrari or Mec give seat to him with good pay in hike, he will not join. Don't except him to join.

Ferrari will go with Vettel for 2020 to give another chance to him then they can decide on who is wing man for lecrec in 2021.
I think you are actually right.
Daniel will be in a Ferrari or a Mercedes in 2012 👍

He's played a great card to go to Renault for a couple of years.

Massive money, then when all the contracts are open, he'll be right finding a good drive 😉
Why would any driver need to go to ferrari or Merc in 2021? With the CAP all the teams will be much closer. He's already getting paid good money.
What you say makes a lot of sense mate, but I honestly reckon Riccardo's pulled a master stroke.

If it doesn't look like Renault have a Championship winner by the end of 2020, it works out for him because a few of the big players are out of contract.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:28 pm

Webber2011 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:31 am
diffuser wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:30 pm
Webber2011 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:14 am


I think you are actually right.
Daniel will be in a Ferrari or a Mercedes in 2012 👍

He's played a great card to go to Renault for a couple of years.

Massive money, then when all the contracts are open, he'll be right finding a good drive 😉
Why would any driver need to go to ferrari or Merc in 2021? With the CAP all the teams will be much closer. He's already getting paid good money.
What you say makes a lot of sense mate, but I honestly reckon Riccardo's pulled a master stroke.

If it doesn't look like Renault have a Championship winner by the end of 2020, it works out for him because a few of the big players are out of contract.
2021 is probably anyone's guess who'll be out front and what the trend will be. If I was Ric, I'd sigh a 1 year extension, let the dust settle and then choose in 2022.

Webber2011
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Location: Australia NSW

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Webber2011 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:24 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:28 pm
Webber2011 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:31 am
diffuser wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:30 pm


Why would any driver need to go to ferrari or Merc in 2021? With the CAP all the teams will be much closer. He's already getting paid good money.
What you say makes a lot of sense mate, but I honestly reckon Riccardo's pulled a master stroke.

If it doesn't look like Renault have a Championship winner by the end of 2020, it works out for him because a few of the big players are out of contract.
2021 is probably anyone's guess who'll be out front and what the trend will be. If I was Ric, I'd sigh a 1 year extension, let the dust settle and then choose in 2022.
Not a bad way to look at it mate.
For all we know, (as unlikely as it seems now), Renault could turn out to be a Championship contender ?

I'd just love to see Dan end up in a Ferrari though 😍

Cuky
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Cuky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:27 pm

Aldo Costa may be on his way back to Maranello. That is at least a rumor that Auto Bild first reported on, here presented by grandpx.news

https://grandpx.news/aldo-costa-to-retu ... ri-rumour/

NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by NL_Fer » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:56 pm

Cuky wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:27 pm
Aldo Costa may be on his way back to Maranello. That is at least a rumor that Auto Bild first reported on, here presented by grandpx.news

https://grandpx.news/aldo-costa-to-retu ... ri-rumour/
Costa seems a little underrated. His 2005 Ferrari was worthless because of the tyres and in 2009 Ferrari put their attention on KERS instead of a double diffuser. But the all the other Ferrari’s were competitive cars.

Mercedes AMG is a development machine, but maybe poaching Costa can turn things around.

aleks_ader
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by aleks_ader » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Yeah. Naturally he would be welcome i think. Matia is clever guy and i think he would see benefit. Matia needs help. So he is searching for strong leadership for each departments.Aldo would be good and logical bid. Even not for full time job like he was till now in Merc. He could be just part time adviser. He could just show how Merc build its R&D or how best team in f1 operates. Question is just how long he would have gardening leave from Merc. I assume he still works there. So 6-12 months minimum. Depends of course.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Cuky
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Cuky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:23 pm

Since the start of this year he is more in advisory role in Mercedes than in technical one "due to personal issues". Apparently he wanted to have more free time to spend with his family in Italy.

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by MtthsMlw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:38 pm


MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by MtthsMlw » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:16 pm

Tweet got deleted but Ferrari could change MGUK, ES and CE for Vettel since he's starting P20 anyways.