2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:44 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:41 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:35 pm
Expect Mercedes to get another half a second of pace if this is true
How many pounds would it have to loose to gain .5 of a second?
Schummie on the Verstappen forum (regular contributor) says he heard 12KG being mentioned and that they are currently over the weight limit. The exact time gain per KG (I am from a metric system country) varies widely per track. So do not take 0.500 as gospel, but expect it to be significant.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:51 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:44 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:41 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:35 pm
Expect Mercedes to get another half a second of pace if this is true
How many pounds would it have to loose to gain .5 of a second?
Schummie on the Verstappen forum (regular contributor) says he heard 12KG being mentioned and that they are currently over the weight limit. The exact time gain per KG (I am from a metric system country) varies widely per track. So do not take 0.500 as gospel, but expect it to be significant.
F1 fanatic circuit data says that Germany fuel usage is 1.5 kg of fuel per lap and is worth .045 of a second per lap. so 12KG would be .36 seconds per lap. That is if the lost 12KG and if they were 12KG overweight...which I'm struggling to believe.

Datco
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Datco » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 am

Wow Merc going on a spending overdrive. They had an update in winter testing and now this after dominating the season. . Whatever they learn here will leapfrog them for years to come in construction and materials and the budget cap will make it more difficult for others to rnd.
For RBR sake we can only hope it will take Merc a few races to optimize.

Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Bill » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 am

Mercedes only had one spec in winter testing it is a misconception to assume you can bring a new spec in under one week it's nonsense. The first car they brought was about testing systems.

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:32 pm

Datco wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 am
Wow Merc going on a spending overdrive. They had an update in winter testing and now this after dominating the season. . Whatever they learn here will leapfrog them for years to come in construction and materials and the budget cap will make it more difficult for others to rnd.
For RBR sake we can only hope it will take Merc a few races to optimize.
Yup, someone still wondering why Max needs to go to Merc as I keep saying, no matter how nice RB are to him?

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:48 pm

Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer says the prospect of Formula 1 star Max Verstappen racing for the manufacturer at the Le Mans 24 Hours is "a conversation to be had".
.... together with his dad =D>
https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/ ... s/4498918/
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ME4ME » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:08 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:32 pm
Datco wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 am
Wow Merc going on a spending overdrive. They had an update in winter testing and now this after dominating the season. . Whatever they learn here will leapfrog them for years to come in construction and materials and the budget cap will make it more difficult for others to rnd.
For RBR sake we can only hope it will take Merc a few races to optimize.
Yup, someone still wondering why Max needs to go to Merc as I keep saying, no matter how nice RB are to him?
Well before taking Italian media and some guy on the Verstappen forum for absolute truth, lets wait to see what Mercedes actually brings to the track and now much that's worth. Drawing conclusions way too early here..
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:48 pm
Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer says the prospect of Formula 1 star Max Verstappen racing for the manufacturer at the Le Mans 24 Hours is "a conversation to be had".
.... together with his dad =D>
https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/ ... s/4498918/
Just read that minutes ago. It's a real possibilty and would be great to see.
I somehow wonder if this "public dreaming" ahead of any internal conversations with Max is part of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing's effort to make the grass look greener on this side of the fence.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:23 pm

Datco wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 am
Wow Merc going on a spending overdrive. They had an update in winter testing and now this after dominating the season. . Whatever they learn here will leapfrog them for years to come in construction and materials and the budget cap will make it more difficult for others to rnd.
For RBR sake we can only hope it will take Merc a few races to optimize.
What's to optimise? it's the same frame, just lighter.

loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by loner » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:01 pm

Wouter wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:25 pm
Translated with google translate from Motorsport Italia.

Incredible Mercedes: a new W10 chassis approved!

Brackley's team has passed all crash tests at Cranfield with a lightweight body that introduces a couple of new concepts
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/incre ... 0/4498638/
OUCH
para bellum.

Datco
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Datco » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:09 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:23 pm
Datco wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 am
Wow Merc going on a spending overdrive. They had an update in winter testing and now this after dominating the season. . Whatever they learn here will leapfrog them for years to come in construction and materials and the budget cap will make it more difficult for others to rnd.
For RBR sake we can only hope it will take Merc a few races to optimize.
What's to optimise? it's the same frame, just lighter.
Well I said I hope, but in general besides the immediate gains of being lighter there would be set up opportunities on chasis and PU to further exploit the nimbleness a lighter chasis would bring.

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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:38 pm

Mercedes took half a year to put .3 on the car, and apparently won't be raced until the summer break. In that same time, Red Bull gained a second, they are improving faster than Mercedes, so let's not count out this team. They seem to have cracked the code on this year's regulations, and the car has been relentlessly improving every race. Together with Honda pushing the power unit side, regardless what Mercedes comes up with, they have a worthy rival.

The factory has been putting in work, and to be honest I think they surprised themselves with how much they managed to better things. To some, this would be motivation, seeing the hard work pay off with tangible results. It would re-affirm that they are on the right path.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Big Tea » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:04 pm

The multiplier being that starting with a lighter car means they have to put in less fuel, making it lighter ...
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:24 pm

Sieper wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:17 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:20 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:35 pm


Not on merit??

Did RBR screwed up the tyre strategy? NO
Did RBR have cooling problems? NO.
So they did a better job than the other teams en deserve to win.
yep, I agree. I don't like the way way Max Passed but the rules are the rules. I didn't know defending rules are different than for the passer. There are also now 2 sets of rules in F1, 1 for Passing or being passed by Max and passing or being passed by everyone else, atleast that the way it looked to me with LeClerc at the last race. Anyways Max was definitely faster at the end of that GP.
That was a decided pass, which left every opportunity to yield. Which Leclerc didn’t do, banking on a penalty I am sure. Did you see Leclerc slamming to the right on the end of hangar straight last race? That left no opportunity for Max to decide to abort the overtake attempt. If you disagree with Max way of driving, even singling him out I am curious as to how you see such attempts?

I always subscribed to the Alonso approach "you always jhabe to leabe space!". It also makes sense if you're in a title fight, as the more often you have contact, the higher the chances of a retirement. When Max finally did get passed, LeClerc didn't have any space and was forced off the road. The reason why max did that was, the Ferrari was faster in a straight line, and LeClerc re-passed him on the previous pass attempt. That's only my opinion, that plus 4 quarters will give you 1 $.

By not penalizing Max, it led to the hanger straight sequence. If you notice LeClerc didn't behave the same with other drivers, just with max. In the end if other drivers adopt LeClerc lead of treating Max differently, I believe it will lead to Max having having more incidents than other drivers, hence more retirements. Another driver that has Max's attitude is Hass's Magnussen. Like to see those two in similar paced cars and see the tears that will follow.

DChemTech
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by DChemTech » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:38 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:24 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:17 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:20 pm


yep, I agree. I don't like the way way Max Passed but the rules are the rules. I didn't know defending rules are different than for the passer. There are also now 2 sets of rules in F1, 1 for Passing or being passed by Max and passing or being passed by everyone else, atleast that the way it looked to me with LeClerc at the last race. Anyways Max was definitely faster at the end of that GP.
That was a decided pass, which left every opportunity to yield. Which Leclerc didn’t do, banking on a penalty I am sure. Did you see Leclerc slamming to the right on the end of hangar straight last race? That left no opportunity for Max to decide to abort the overtake attempt. If you disagree with Max way of driving, even singling him out I am curious as to how you see such attempts?

I always subscribed to the Alonso approach "you always jhabe to leabe space!". It also makes sense if you're in a title fight, as the more often you have contact, the higher the chances of a retirement. When Max finally did get passed, LeClerc didn't have any space and was forced off the road. The reason why max did that was, the Ferrari was faster in a straight line, and LeClerc re-passed him on the previous pass attempt. That's only my opinion, that plus 4 quarters will give you 1 $.

By not penalizing Max, it led to the hanger straight sequence. If you notice LeClerc didn't behave the same with other drivers, just with max. In the end if other drivers adopt LeClerc lead of treating Max differently, I believe it will lead to Max having having more incidents than other drivers, hence more retirements. Another driver that has Max's attitude is Hass's Magnussen. Like to see those two in similar paced cars and see the tears that will follow.
Sorry, but it annoys me intensely when someone writes "Hass". The team is named Haas and has been named that for several seasons. No reason to get that wrong.

As for the overtake, one should be able to take such a decided overtake if one is ahead (which Max was). If you always must leave a cars width of space on the outside as long as even a fraction of the defender is alongside, it means there is hardly any point taking the inside line. You always need to take the corner extra-tight, miss the apex and ruin your exit speed - such that the defender always has the advantage coming out of the corner. For the defender there's no point in yielding: either the attacker leaves space (you win by exit speed), or you run off track (no serious consequence with run-off areas) and the attacker gets penalized. The only inside overtakes that will be successful in that case are the ones with huge speed differences - but for near equal rivals, forget it. I can see how it seems like a harsh move by Max to make, and that it is annoying when it happens to the driver you support, but I do think it is how racing should be allowed to take place. There's very little left otherwise.

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:39 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:38 pm
Mercedes took half a year to put .3 on the car, and apparently won't be raced until the summer break. In that same time, Red Bull gained a second, they are improving faster than Mercedes, so let's not count out this team. They seem to have cracked the code on this year's regulations, and the car has been relentlessly improving every race. Together with Honda pushing the power unit side, regardless what Mercedes comes up with, they have a worthy rival.

The factory has been putting in work, and to be honest I think they surprised themselves with how much they managed to better things. To some, this would be motivation, seeing the hard work pay off with tangible results. It would re-affirm that they are on the right path.
False comparison. Mercedes started the season with an already dominant car wheras RB started the year with a car with flaws. More room for improvement for RB. What is matters is ultimate competitiveness not who can improve the most. And Merc is still dominant. They are also going to ein the German GP as the expected heat is just ahead of the weekend. On saturday and sunday it is going to be 28 degrees at most again which they could handle fine in Paul Ricard.