Silly Season 2018/2019

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
454
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 pm


Jaques Villeneuve had every opportunity to win the championship in 96.
Jos Verstappen too. 94 was his debut year, his team mate won the title.

What Zarathustra said is so far from the truth, or maybe we are misunderstanding his comment?
It doesn’t mean that you’ll be a Champion- if you’re driving a ‘championship contending car’.

It does mean that Hamilton had a ‘championship contending car’ in his rookie year.. and the year after.

On itself, this hardly ever happens.. maybe indeed Villeneuve.

* - Edit, what is happening here?
But he got that seat by reaching out to Ron when Lewis was still a kid. The famous "I'm Lewis Hamilton and one day I want to drive your cars" (or whatever the exact quote is) was the first step. He got McLaren's help in his development years and that doubtless helped him. And then after winning GP2 he got the F1 drive.

People behave as if he just got given the seat in 2007 out of the blue. He earned it following his ballsy meeting with Ron and his subsequent proving of his ability. Now Max was a guy that got given an F1 seat with little real single seater racing background. Indeed Kimi did too, back in the day when Sauber signed him up. He had so little experience that he had to do some driving to prove he was suitable for F1 - a driving test effectively.

I wonder how many Max fans would be talking about Hamilton getting a good car in his early F1 career, if Max had taken Mercedes's offer of being in their driver development team rather than RedBull's. Imagine, Max could be in Bottas's car today if that had happened...
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Pyrone89
4
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Pyrone89 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:02 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm


Jos Verstappen too. 94 was his debut year, his team mate won the title.

What Zarathustra said is so far from the truth, or maybe we are misunderstanding his comment?
It doesn’t mean that you’ll be a Champion- if you’re driving a ‘championship contending car’.

It does mean that Hamilton had a ‘championship contending car’ in his rookie year.. and the year after.

On itself, this hardly ever happens.. maybe indeed Villeneuve.

* - Edit, what is happening here?
But he got that seat by reaching out to Ron when Lewis was still a kid. The famous "I'm Lewis Hamilton and one day I want to drive your cars" (or whatever the exact quote is) was the first step. He got McLaren's help in his development years and that doubtless helped him. And then after winning GP2 he got the F1 drive.

People behave as if he just got given the seat in 2007 out of the blue. He earned it following his ballsy meeting with Ron and his subsequent proving of his ability. Now Max was a guy that got given an F1 seat with little real single seater racing background. Indeed Kimi did too, back in the day when Sauber signed him up. He had so little experience that he had to do some driving to prove he was suitable for F1 - a driving test effectively.

I wonder how many Max fans would be talking about Hamilton getting a good car in his early F1 career, if Max had taken Mercedes's offer of being in their driver development team rather than RedBull's. Imagine, Max could be in Bottas's car today if that had happened...
Then indeed it would have been a different story. Except he would be going head to head with LH so we would not have a need for all this back and forth in the first place as the two biggest talents in the sport can go head to head like LH did himself in 2007 (a performance which in my book was way more impressive than the titles in a dominant Merc). Risk with the Merc offer is, as you can see, you get put in a useless Williams even if you dominate F2. Or worse get benched.

Zarathustra
0
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:19 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Zarathustra » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:54 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm


Jos Verstappen too. 94 was his debut year, his team mate won the title.

What Zarathustra said is so far from the truth, or maybe we are misunderstanding his comment?
It doesn’t mean that you’ll be a Champion- if you’re driving a ‘championship contending car’.

It does mean that Hamilton had a ‘championship contending car’ in his rookie year.. and the year after.

On itself, this hardly ever happens.. maybe indeed Villeneuve.

* - Edit, what is happening here?
But he got that seat by reaching out to Ron when Lewis was still a kid. The famous "I'm Lewis Hamilton and one day I want to drive your cars" (or whatever the exact quote is) was the first step. He got McLaren's help in his development years and that doubtless helped him. And then after winning GP2 he got the F1 drive.

People behave as if he just got given the seat in 2007 out of the blue. He earned it following his ballsy meeting with Ron and his subsequent proving of his ability. Now Max was a guy that got given an F1 seat with little real single seater racing background. Indeed Kimi did too, back in the day when Sauber signed him up. He had so little experience that he had to do some driving to prove he was suitable for F1 - a driving test effectively.

I wonder how many Max fans would be talking about Hamilton getting a good car in his early F1 career, if Max had taken Mercedes's offer of being in their driver development team rather than RedBull's. Imagine, Max could be in Bottas's car today if that had happened...
Don’t get me wrong- I do think ánd admit that Hamilton is special, no doubt.

But..

I do think the same thing about Verstappen.

Every once in a while you have these kind of driver, that is able to make other ‘look like amateurs’.

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.

Verstappen is in a good environment- Red Bull currently does not have the best overall package, so this will only ‘mold’ him becoming a better driver.

sAx
6
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by sAx » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:35 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:35 pm
sAx wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:31 pm
trinidefender wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:48 pm
Mods, do you mind cleaning up about 4 pages of offtopic dribble on this thread?
You would somehow think that the substitution of Albon for Gasly would actually have merit for discussion...oh my days!
It broke the internet
F1T should be renamed F1H(amilton!). No matter how obscure the topic, he becomes the benchmark against which all ill-conceived notions are judged!
Integrity, Trust, Respect.

Follow me: http://twitter.com/#!/sAx247

Big Tea
57
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Big Tea » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:38 pm

ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:47 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:16 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:08 pm
Back on topic, Albon thai connection has some credence to it. I don't think it was why he selected outright, but it will create synergies. And you cannot blame the marketing machine at redbull for exploiting that fact.
It makes sense, i don't see any wrong doing in it. What sweetens the pot is that he is also British. This goes a very long way with promotions. Albons pre and post race videos for torro rosso are quite enjoyable for english speakers because he has a relatable sense of humour. So i think Redbull can only win from selecting this guy.
And i think Max now has to keep one eye on the front runners and the other eye on Albon.
I see Albon getting the better of Max on a few occasions, also i see him gathering support amongst the mechanics and engineers because of his personality. Daddy Verstappen may not like this however.
If this is true we have to ask how come he did not have a seat at the beginning of the season and had already signed for
Formula E?

If he was being boosted into F1 would he not at least have had a shot at replacing Hartley, as Helmut had to eat humble pie to bring DK back? Had things 'gone according to plan' Albon would not even have been in the STR, it was only desperation that got him the drive. (Red Bulls, not his)
I am not saying he is being boosted because of marketing. I am saying the marketing is a side benefit of selecting him for the redbull drive. I think he got where he is now because of his abilities in the car. I don't seem him as a pay driver. Just saying his thai connections are a plus.

So with this dude in the redbull and Gasly back at TR.. Hulkenberg might want to go to Sauber next year to try and beat Kimi. If he succeeds, he has a chance at the ferrari seat. Hulk to redbull is just not going to happen. He wont want to go to Haas or back to Racing Point.
Hulk to Sauber is his best pathway to a top drive at this stage. Redbull's shop is pretty much closed.

Ocon to Renault for a year, and Bottas stays at Mercedes. Russel to stay at Williams.. Kubica out. Giovinazi looks like he is out unless he can do a deal to get a Haas drive.

Racing points stays the same unfortunately. It would be great if Perez got a drive in a merc or ferrari by this time, but it wont happen. lol
Sorry, I mis-understood. Yes, It assume if there was some weighting it would make sense to maximize it. After all, Daniil is not lost, just 'in waiting'.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Just_a_fan
454
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:26 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:02 pm
the titles in a dominant Merc)
You can't stop yourself, can you? :roll:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
454
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:29 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.
True, although Max is better than Ocon so probably would have found the best seat available.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Jolle
153
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Jolle » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:29 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.
True, although Max is better than Ocon so probably would have found the best seat available.
Fortunes can change before you know it. At Mercedes he could have still been waiting for a seat or be where Bottas is now. On the other hand, if Mercedes chooses Ocon, he’s got a better chance on a title then Verstappen probably has next year and on pole to be the main man at the WC team at the moment.

But. He can also be “stuck” at Renault...

What Verstappen has accomplished, is, whatever happens with his seat at RedBull, he can choose his next move, while Ocon still can end like Wehrlein or Vandoorne

Phil
392
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Phil » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:40 pm

Diesel wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:22 pm

So you're quoting things that hwere published during, not what was revealed afterward. 1) Dennis himself said in an interview they needed to teach Hamilton who needed who so they let him make the choice of the rear wing despite them knowing the One Button had was markedly faster on the straights. Teach him a lesson. 2) You think given the 2012 season that by that point Hamilton hadn't already been tainted? That tweet didn't happen in a vacuum. Wait for Hamilton's tell all book when it comes out. An autographed copy even. ;)

Funny how people regurgitate as gospel the "official" spoon fed information given out by team PR and communication directors.

Anyway, we know who's fared best after the 2012 season, water under the bridge.
Got a source for those Dennis quotes? I'm sure if I rolll out all the other instances Hamilton was beaten there will be some reason it doesn't count, so I won't bother.

For the record, I think Hamilton is currently the best driver in F1, and has been for some years. But, he wasn't always the best, and he certainly hasn't been the best driver in every session since he entered the sport.
You should rewatch the 2011 season. I’m quite confident Hamilton (perhaps apart from 2010) never saw Button as competition. Button was incredibly consinstent and fairly lucky in scoring good points when starting out of position (relative to Hamilton) due to gambles and strategy. Meanwhile, Hamilton was overdriving, trying to mount a challenge to RedBull and as a result found himself in trouble a couple of times that cost a lot of points. In the end, yes Button beat Hamilton on points, but that point score didnt say much. Just look at the qualifyings to see who was the quicker driver throughout and you’ll see it wasnt Button.

Having said that, IMO Hamilton is the driver he is today because he had Button as a team mate. He learned one valuable lesson there; raw speed isnt the only thing that matters. You want a good environment and consistent performance. You also need a strong team around you. Hamilton wasnt in a good place around 2011 and generally under Whitmarsh and i think that also ultimately led him to be lured away by Mercedes.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

ringo
227
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by ringo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:57 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Don’t get me wrong- I do think ánd admit that Hamilton is special, no doubt.

But..

I do think the same thing about Verstappen.

Every once in a while you have these kind of driver, that is able to make other ‘look like amateurs’.

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.

Verstappen is in a good environment- Red Bull currently does not have the best overall package, so this will only ‘mold’ him becoming a better driver.
I don't think Verstappen has been proven in the same way Hamilton has, also i don't think he has performed under the same level of pressure or with the same level of competition. Neither has he pulled of 10% of the drives Hamilton has; and i'm just looking on Hamilton's Mclaren days. I wont even count the Mercedes days.
Talented guy yes, cut above the piers in his age group, but i don't think he is a de-factor once in 20 years kind of driver.
Hasn't really proven much given his temmates and lack of exposure to a championship fight.
Albon may well whoop Max in the next year and we will have to re-evaluate in the same way we have done with Vettel after he faced Daniel and Leclerc. You don't hear people calling Vettel the fastest over a lap anymore like they did in his Redbull days. Daniel and especially Charles have proven to be faster in qualifying.

So yea Max needs maybe a world champion teammate, and a battle for WDC, and the type of races we have seen with Hamilton even from his rookie year.

Anyhow not to divert from the topic, i think Albon may just be able to give Max something to think about in the Redbull garage.
For Sure!!

Pyrone89
4
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Pyrone89 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:38 pm

sAx wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:35 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:35 pm
sAx wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:31 pm


You would somehow think that the substitution of Albon for Gasly would actually have merit for discussion...oh my days!
It broke the internet
F1T should be renamed F1H(amilton!). No matter how obscure the topic, he becomes the benchmark against which all ill-conceived notions are judged!
Being on an English speaking forum does not help, as national pride becomes a point (just like at Autosport) when you say anything remotely considered as criticism or providing context for a British driver.
Last edited by Pyrone89 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pyrone89
4
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Pyrone89 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:43 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:02 pm
the titles in a dominant Merc)
You can't stop yourself, can you? :roll:
Yet again only quoting the part that suits your narrative. The rest of the post is full of praise of LH and what do you do, again, focus on the one line where a reservation is made. This is getting tiring and I am actually wondering why I keep clicking on the collapsed view of your posts (your post are not shown anymore like other users, you have to click on them first) but will stop doing that now.
ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:57 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Don’t get me wrong- I do think ánd admit that Hamilton is special, no doubt.

But..

I do think the same thing about Verstappen.

Every once in a while you have these kind of driver, that is able to make other ‘look like amateurs’.

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.

Verstappen is in a good environment- Red Bull currently does not have the best overall package, so this will only ‘mold’ him becoming a better driver.
I don't think Verstappen has been proven in the same way Hamilton has, also i don't think he has performed under the same level of pressure or with the same level of competition. Neither has he pulled of 10% of the drives Hamilton has; and i'm just looking on Hamilton's Mclaren days. I wont even count the Mercedes days.
Talented guy yes, cut above the piers in his age group, but i don't think he is a de-factor once in 20 years kind of driver.
Hasn't really proven much given his temmates and lack of exposure to a championship fight.
Albon may well whoop Max in the next year and we will have to re-evaluate in the same way we have done with Vettel after he faced Daniel and Leclerc. You don't hear people calling Vettel the fastest over a lap anymore like they did in his Redbull days. Daniel and especially Charles have proven to be faster in qualifying.

So yea Max needs maybe a world champion teammate, and a battle for WDC, and the type of races we have seen with Hamilton even from his rookie year.

Anyhow not to divert from the topic, i think Albon may just be able to give Max something to think about in the Redbull garage.
You can have your opinion, just know that it is contrary to the perception of the F1 media and insiders. Furthermore, Verstappen has already shown things that Hamilton did in his McLaren days including wet weather racing and instant succes, superb racecraft etc. Ofcourse he does not yet have the same stats or a genuine championship challenge as 1. He joined the sport 8 years later and 2. Has never had a car good enough to challenge for the WDC.


On-topic: which possibilities do we see for the Haas boys for 2020

PlatinumZealot
343
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:57 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:43 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:02 pm
the titles in a dominant Merc)
You can't stop yourself, can you? :roll:
Yet again only quoting the part that suits your narrative. The rest of the post is full of praise of LH and what do you do, again, focus on the one line where a reservation is made. This is getting tiring and I am actually wondering why I keep clicking on the collapsed view of your posts (your post are not shown anymore like other users, you have to click on them first) but will stop doing that now.
ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:57 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Don’t get me wrong- I do think ánd admit that Hamilton is special, no doubt.

But..

I do think the same thing about Verstappen.

Every once in a while you have these kind of driver, that is able to make other ‘look like amateurs’.

Furthermore I am happy Verstappen did not sign with Mercedes- have a look at Ocon.

Verstappen is in a good environment- Red Bull currently does not have the best overall package, so this will only ‘mold’ him becoming a better driver.
I don't think Verstappen has been proven in the same way Hamilton has, also i don't think he has performed under the same level of pressure or with the same level of competition. Neither has he pulled of 10% of the drives Hamilton has; and i'm just looking on Hamilton's Mclaren days. I wont even count the Mercedes days.
Talented guy yes, cut above the piers in his age group, but i don't think he is a de-factor once in 20 years kind of driver.
Hasn't really proven much given his temmates and lack of exposure to a championship fight.
Albon may well whoop Max in the next year and we will have to re-evaluate in the same way we have done with Vettel after he faced Daniel and Leclerc. You don't hear people calling Vettel the fastest over a lap anymore like they did in his Redbull days. Daniel and especially Charles have proven to be faster in qualifying.

So yea Max needs maybe a world champion teammate, and a battle for WDC, and the type of races we have seen with Hamilton even from his rookie year.

Anyhow not to divert from the topic, i think Albon may just be able to give Max something to think about in the Redbull garage.
You can have your opinion, just know that it is contrary to the perception of the F1 media and insiders. Furthermore, Verstappen has already shown things that Hamilton did in his McLaren days including wet weather racing and instant succes, superb racecraft etc. Ofcourse he does not yet have the same stats or a genuine championship challenge as 1. He joined the sport 8 years later and 2. Has never had a car good enough to challenge for the WDC.


On-topic: which possibilities do we see for the Haas boys for 2020
Have you seen the Hamilton 2007 to 2010 highlight reels? I don't even think your boy Max has that library yet.
He's good, but only so far proven to be hair faster than Daniel, who is about a Perez Hulk level sort of speed. He has maybe two decent went races.Both of which he was never the fastest car on track. Not bad, but he needs to go against Maybe Leclerc in the same car. If he can beat leclerc he can step up to facing Hamilton.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

roon
435
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by roon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:08 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 pm
Perhaps you meant the GOAT of good and fortunate team choices. And who exactly did LH face at the rocketship called Merc that was so hard? Rosberg, who had a relative sub top career before then, not really king slayer material yet he managed it.
He's not a GOAT, he's a HUMAN BEING.

(Had Unusurpable Machinery And No Brisk Entrants In Neighboring Garages)

raymondu999
139
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by raymondu999 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:42 am

aral wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:46 pm
Once again i have had to remove some posts which are just plain trolling and fanboy posts. The thread title is indeed "silly season" but is for 2018-2019. However some of the usual suspects are using it to wage what appears to be a personal war against each other, and harking back to seasons past. Please calm down and have proper debate instead of all this tit for tat.
Oh, and before i get more PMs, yes, i know that there are other posts that should also be removed, but I am on holidays at the moment and havent the time to catch the offenders !
Should we not have a silly season 2019-2020 thread now? Silly season 2018-2019 ended the moment 2019 became an actual season
失败者找理由,成功者找方法