2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by drunkf1fan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:26 pm

Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:44 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:39 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Matsisuta is close to getting his superlicense, but therefor he either needs to finish 4th in F2 or racing in the winter to get his points
Is that true?? I thought that he was far from getting the points due he struggled on Super Formula. If he gets the superlicense, would be great to see him entering STR replacing Gasly, but he won't finish 4th on F2, too far away I think.
as far as i know he has some points already (2017 F2 finished 6th, 10 points) and if he finishes 4th this year, which is almost undoable he would have enough points.... but due to the gap (50 points) between him and 4th placed driver (Ghiotto) it will be hard to get those last 30 points so he has to drive in the winter to get the neccesarry points

Didn't he get some test days in F1 and everyone said he was basically unimpressive and disappointed Honda who were keen to get a Japanese driver into F1 but his test pretty much made them write him off? He'd be turning 26 before next year, he had two years in GP2 and achieved nothing basically. Vandoorne did GP2 for two years and came 2nd then 1st, both with Art and the first year he was beaten only by Palmer who ended up in F1 as well.

Matsushita came 9th and 11th, both with Art, in the same team as Vandoorne who won in 2015 when he came 9th and in the same team as Sirotkin who came third in 2016. Sirotkin got to F1 and was okay but not great, he was beaten by Gio and Gasly in 2016, neither who seem particularly strong and between them and Matsushita came a whole bunch of drivers most of whom don't appear to be F1 quality at all.


This year he's still only 7th, is one of the oldest in the field, is being beaten by a rookie and just doesn't in any way by results or considering his age/experience, nothing implies he's remotely close to F1 quality. I mean Gasly went to get points with Super Formula and came 2nd, Matsushita did the same last year and came 11th.

Having a decent Japanese driver in F1 would be valuable to Honda, pushing anyone available in and having a really bad Japanese driver completely out of his depth will hurt them rather than help.

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Google translated version of the Japanese article which I stitched together:
Red Bull Honda's Max Verstappen won the pole position (PP) in the Hungarian Grand Prix. First PP for Verstappen. For Honda, it was the first PP in 142 races since the 2006 third round Australian GP (Jenson Button).

However, the 2006 F1 was an era where refueling was possible during the race, and the Q3 that decided the PP was attacking with fuel to be loaded at the start of the final race.

Therefore, rather than simply competing for speed at this time, the emphasis was on the battle of fighting for as little time as possible while mounting a little more fuel than rivals in anticipation of the race, and the value of PP is It was lower than before. Prior to that, a method that emphasized entertainment was adopted rather than a place to decide the fastest driver and machine, such as the introduction of a one-attack method.

In the 1992 Canadian Grand Prix, Ayrton Senna was the last time Honda won a PP in qualifying with the number of attacks and the amount of fuel loaded freely. In other words, the Hungarian Grand Prix PP was the moment Honda made the fastest lap on the course for the first time in 27 years.

The head-on game that Honda challenged.

This PP acquisition was not helped by the rain, but it can also be evaluated in terms of Honda's straight victory against Mercedes.

The battle between Honda and Mercedes began in Q2.

Verstappen decided to advance to Q3 in second place after Louis Hamilton (Mercedes). The difference is only 25/1000 seconds. I grasped the response that could be reversed.

Q3, the first attack. Verstappen suddenly fascinated me. Only one person broke the wall of 1 minute 15 seconds and marked 1 minute 14 seconds 958. I surpassed two Mercedes and got a temporary PP seat. It was the first time since Honda returned to '15 that Honda took the provisional PP in qualifying.

However, the Honda faction was not yet relieved. Both the Mercedes and Verstappen had another set of new soft tires, leaving the opportunity to attack once more. Moreover, because the Hungaroring, the stage of the Hungarian Grand Prix, is not usually raced, the road surface is dirty at the beginning of the run.
Radio from Verstappen.

Another thing that Honda was concerned about. In the first attack, Verstappen was wirelessly telling them that the battery had run out when he got up at the last corner.

The current F1 is a hybrid that integrates two regenerative energy systems into a turbo engine, and can use 120kW (about 33 seconds) motor-assisted deployment per lap.

The lap time when Verstappen struck out the provisional PP at Hungaroring was 1 minute 14 seconds 958 as described above, so it was running with turbo engine + motor assist for about 33 seconds and the turbo engine alone for the remaining 42 seconds That's right. This distribution is called “energy management” and how it is distributed depends on the characteristics of the power unit, the car settings, and the driver's accelerator work.

Verstappen felt that the battery had run out because the battery did not have a problem and the 120kW motor assist had been used up to that point.

Remote operation of the site in Japan and the UK.

However, if the driver wants power and feels power shortage, energy management may not have been optimal.

“We looked at the data of the first attack and responded to HRD Sakura, HRD MK, and the circuit at the same time for the second attack, and changed the energy management settings.” Toyoji Tanabe F1 Technical Director)

HRD Sakura is a laboratory that develops Honda F1 in Sakura City, Tochigi Prefecture. HRD MK is the front base of Honda F1 in Milton Keynes, England.

Verstappen travel data is also monitored by Honda staff in Japan and the United Kingdom, using satellite links from the circuit. Each engineer who received instructions from Tanabe TD made full use of the simulator to play out the optimal energy management and responded to Hangaro Link. The field engineer reset the new data that was sent and sent Verstappen to the last attack.

Sensor that the driver has.

Meanwhile, 5 minutes 52 seconds. Tanabe TD appreciates that it was a radio from Verstappen that made it possible.

“Driving data is not one, but dozens or hundreds of data are sent by telemetry. If anything, engineers are keeping an eye on the data so that it can respond immediately. However, since there is an enormous amount of data, analysis takes time.

If the driver with the best sensor is saying `` This is weird '', the engineer can quickly find where it seems to be a problem without looking at other data. ''

Verstappen's furious drive.

The last attack was not Hamilton, but the teammate Valteri Bottas. Moreover, up to sector 2, Bottas was 0.061 seconds faster. Everyone gave up Verstappen PP, but Verstappen and Honda staff believed.

Verstappen's computer controls included a new energy management, which was a modification of sector 3 sector.

Verstappen, who got up at the last corner, was no longer complaining. The time that passed the control line was 1 minute 14 seconds 572. Botas was 18/1000 seconds higher and gained a spectacular PP.

Red Bull's Christian Horner praised the run as "only in the last two corners, Max reversed Valtelli". Verstappen's sector 3 segment time of 21.021 seconds was the fastest of the 20 drivers, and sector 3 alone showed a furious drive that surpassed Bottas by 0.079 seconds.

The driving was made possible by Verstappen's courage to believe in Honda and the problem, and until Honda engineers in Japan and the UK's factories believed out the optimal energy management. It was a battle of 52 minutes.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:52 pm

I seriously hope Honda doesn’t believe the 33s rule anymore. But Sakura finetuning ERS management realtime is very cool.

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:55 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:52 pm
I seriously hope Honda doesn’t believe the 33s rule anymore. But Sakura finetuning ERS management realtime is very cool.
Yes.

This are things that would never have been possible if we still were a Renault customer

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 pm

Fantastic share of that Japanese translated article Pyrone89 thanks!

I don't understand the 33 second rule though.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 pm

drunkf1fan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:26 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:44 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:39 pm


Is that true?? I thought that he was far from getting the points due he struggled on Super Formula. If he gets the superlicense, would be great to see him entering STR replacing Gasly, but he won't finish 4th on F2, too far away I think.
as far as i know he has some points already (2017 F2 finished 6th, 10 points) and if he finishes 4th this year, which is almost undoable he would have enough points.... but due to the gap (50 points) between him and 4th placed driver (Ghiotto) it will be hard to get those last 30 points so he has to drive in the winter to get the neccesarry points

Didn't he get some test days in F1 and everyone said he was basically unimpressive and disappointed Honda who were keen to get a Japanese driver into F1 but his test pretty much made them write him off? He'd be turning 26 before next year, he had two years in GP2 and achieved nothing basically. Vandoorne did GP2 for two years and came 2nd then 1st, both with Art and the first year he was beaten only by Palmer who ended up in F1 as well.

Matsushita came 9th and 11th, both with Art, in the same team as Vandoorne who won in 2015 when he came 9th and in the same team as Sirotkin who came third in 2016. Sirotkin got to F1 and was okay but not great, he was beaten by Gio and Gasly in 2016, neither who seem particularly strong and between them and Matsushita came a whole bunch of drivers most of whom don't appear to be F1 quality at all.


This year he's still only 7th, is one of the oldest in the field, is being beaten by a rookie and just doesn't in any way by results or considering his age/experience, nothing implies he's remotely close to F1 quality. I mean Gasly went to get points with Super Formula and came 2nd, Matsushita did the same last year and came 11th.

Having a decent Japanese driver in F1 would be valuable to Honda, pushing anyone available in and having a really bad Japanese driver completely out of his depth will hurt them rather than help.
yeah i agree with you based on those stats.
maybe Tsunoda can put an end to that although not so sure on how good he is, he won the Japanese F4 Championship last year, now standing 12th in his first year in F3 with Jenzer Motorsport.

i also believe RB wanna let a japanese driver do a FP1 run .... forgott his name (i know he must be around 30)

@Wouter maybe you know who i mean

P.S. found it .... Yamamoto
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/naok ... a/4499922/
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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Big Tea » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:07 pm

There is a year old article here

https://www.motorsport.com/fia-f2/news/ ... r/3183894/

that says Honda want Nirei Fukuzumi or/and Tadasuke Makino as their poster boys.

Does not look like either will have points though as the will start dropping points through being out of time soon.

Anyone know of a place we can see who has how many points that is kept up to date?
Last edited by Big Tea on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:09 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:07 pm
There is a year old article here

https://www.motorsport.com/fia-f2/news/ ... r/3183894/

that says Honda want Nirei Fukuzumi or/and Tadasuke Makino as their poster boys.

Does not look like either will have points though as the will start dropping points through being out of time soon.
Both of them are struggling at Super Formula. And Fukuzumi rookie season at F2 was average. If Honda wants them to develop, they need to put at least one of them on a competitive car on F2

Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Big Tea » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:09 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:07 pm
There is a year old article here

https://www.motorsport.com/fia-f2/news/ ... r/3183894/

that says Honda want Nirei Fukuzumi or/and Tadasuke Makino as their poster boys.

Does not look like either will have points though as the will start dropping points through being out of time soon.
Both of them are struggling at Super Formula. And Fukuzumi rookie season at F2 was average. If Honda wants them to develop, they need to put at least one of them on a competitive car on F2
That article is out of date really too.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:12 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:09 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:07 pm
There is a year old article here

https://www.motorsport.com/fia-f2/news/ ... r/3183894/

that says Honda want Nirei Fukuzumi or/and Tadasuke Makino as their poster boys.

Does not look like either will have points though as the will start dropping points through being out of time soon.
Both of them are struggling at Super Formula. And Fukuzumi rookie season at F2 was average. If Honda wants them to develop, they need to put at least one of them on a competitive car on F2
That article is out of date really too.
Well, Yuki Tsunoda is still young. And he has scored all the team points. So the team maybe is not competitive enough, but seems to be doing fine being his rookie season. Hope some of the young japanese turns to be good enough for a F1 seat. Too many time since Sato was bringing some show with Honda (and blowing engines with style like in Mónaco :lol:)

ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm
I would love to see a Japanese driver again in F1 driving for Honda and Redbull. But I'm afraid that none of the current Honda drivers have the min level to be at STR...
JB didn't think that of Naoki Yamamoto. Which is why it's important he has a test drive in the STR to guage his speed relative to Albon and Kvyat.

Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:47 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:39 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm
I would love to see a Japanese driver again in F1 driving for Honda and Redbull. But I'm afraid that none of the current Honda drivers have the min level to be at STR...
JB didn't think that of Naoki Yamamoto. Which is why it's important he has a test drive in the STR to guage his speed relative to Albon and Kvyat.
He is good, and a proven champion multiple times. But he is a bit old, and don't know if that suits with the STR politics. It would be good to see him driving a couple of years in F1 with Honda, but the reason I didn't count him was his age. If he drives on FP1 at Suzuka, and his times are competitive, he may take a seat on STR for one year

ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by ispano6 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:59 pm

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:47 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:39 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm
I would love to see a Japanese driver again in F1 driving for Honda and Redbull. But I'm afraid that none of the current Honda drivers have the min level to be at STR...
JB didn't think that of Naoki Yamamoto. Which is why it's important he has a test drive in the STR to guage his speed relative to Albon and Kvyat.
He is good, and a proven champion multiple times. But he is a bit old, and don't know if that suits with the STR politics. It would be good to see him driving a couple of years in F1 with Honda, but the reason I didn't count him was his age. If he drives on FP1 at Suzuka, and his times are competitive, he may take a seat on STR for one year
I don't think the purpose would be for too many years but he also isn't that old. It's important that the next generation has role models like Satoru Nakajima and Aguri Suzuki to pave the way and be involved in the pinnacle of motorsport. There's no reason not to think that one day you might raise a Yuzuru Hanyu of F1 but you really need the support around you. Yuki Tsunoda, for instance, has all the tools necessary so he definitely will be looked upon with great interest.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by foxmulder_ms » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:16 am

Daniil Kvyat deserves the seat more but RedBull cannot dare to risk their "wonder child" to be beaten :D

Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

Post by Pyrone89 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:23 am

foxmulder_ms wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:16 am
Daniil Kvyat deserves the seat more but RedBull cannot dare to risk their "wonder child" to be beaten :D
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