Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by strad » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:37 pm

Image True but for a very short time.
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loner
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 pm

well they want to ban sex porn video streaming sites for producing lots of emission...
on a more serious note trump want to fine VW , BMW , Ford and Honda for their deal with California obviously he want to terminate Cali deal as well.
para bellum.

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Jolle » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 pm

loner wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 pm
well they want to ban sex porn video streaming sites for producing lots of emission...
on a more serious note trump want to fine VW , BMW , Ford and Honda for their deal with California obviously he want to terminate Cali deal as well.
deining climate change is one thing, prosecuting companies who want to reduce emissions is several bridges too far....

On a brighter note, Volkswagen introduced their first real two big EV's, the Porsche Taycan and the VW ID.3. Not just those Californian dreamers anymore, the germans joined in.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm

Jolle wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:56 pm
hollus wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:49 pm
If we are going to discuss CO, let's do it right. There are two things wrong in the last posts (I am only sure of one).
1) City gas carrying 4% CO. I am willing to bet the house that this is not true, I'll research it later today. But to me that sounds orders of magnitude too high and too toxic.
2) One molecule of CO displaces one molecule of O2. Not true, one molecule of CO binds to one molecule of hemoglobin... and stays there for a long time, preventing the binding of many, many O2 molecules. From wiki:
" Carbon monoxide binds to hemoglobin at the same sites as oxygen, but approximately 210 times more tightly"
"COHb has a half-life in the blood of 4 to 6 hours"
That said, I don't thing CO is the main problem with ICEs nowadays. Not in even minimally ventilated places.
True, it's indeed the blood that gets "poisoned", not the lungs themselves, my bad. 4% sounds very high indeed, sounds more like the CO2 levels.

ICE's are indeed pretty good in not producing CO anymore, at least less. Thats the reason why you can't kill yourself anymore with a modern car with a tube from the exhaust. "in the good old days" or carburettors you could get CO poisoning.
eg City Gas (company) of Singapore supplies most of the residents with domestic gas they call Town Gas
made from naptha (oil) feedstock and natural gas - it has 2% - 6% CO
Hong Kong Tai Po produces similar TG of 1% - 3.1% CO

a billion have had c. 20 years use of TG made from coal - with 10-12% CO (more if WG added at peak demand rates)
cooker (and even water heater) venting into room
cookers without pilot light - relying on (unreliable) matches
heating a bath full of water (with windows closed in winter) - yes this iirc once gave me borderline CO poisoning

btw
millenials and other sensitives might consider inflight CO2 levels
these can/could be 10-20x normal as air refresh rates are/were cut at night (by cheapskate airlines) to save fuel
about 3% of people are hypersensitive to this if they have had only a normal amount of alcohol

btw - to self
catalysts when new give only a fraction of permitted pollutant emission
and so reduce CO by 85% and NOx by 70% (or more)
and similarly reducing the pollutants in the air taken into the engine
though early 3 way catalysts could increase Nitrous Oxide (a bad greenhouse gas)
in 2012 LA VOCs (hydrocarbons) were declared 98% less than 1960s levels though car use had trebled
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 pm
loner wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 pm
well they want to ban sex porn video streaming sites for producing lots of emission...
on a more serious note trump want to fine VW , BMW , Ford and Honda for their deal with California obviously he want to terminate Cali deal as well.
deining climate change is one thing, prosecuting companies who want to reduce emissions is several bridges too far....
That'll be Trump trying to be protectionist rather than climate denier, however.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Jolle » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:27 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 pm
loner wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 pm
well they want to ban sex porn video streaming sites for producing lots of emission...
on a more serious note trump want to fine VW , BMW , Ford and Honda for their deal with California obviously he want to terminate Cali deal as well.
deining climate change is one thing, prosecuting companies who want to reduce emissions is several bridges too far....
That'll be Trump trying to be protectionist rather than climate denier, however.
And without emission control, he's opening up the market to the cheap Chinese cars (and the always fun Lada Niva)

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:00 am

Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:27 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 pm


deining climate change is one thing, prosecuting companies who want to reduce emissions is several bridges too far....
That'll be Trump trying to be protectionist rather than climate denier, however.
And without emission control, he's opening up the market to the cheap Chinese cars (and the always fun Lada Niva)
Nah, Chinese imports will be subjected to tariffs sufficient to make them uneconomic.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Zynerji » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:27 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:00 am
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:27 pm


That'll be Trump trying to be protectionist rather than climate denier, however.
And without emission control, he's opening up the market to the cheap Chinese cars (and the always fun Lada Niva)
Nah, Chinese imports will be subjected to tariffs sufficient to make them uneconomic.
Once the panic settles, it does have the tell-tale signs of a controlled brush fire instead of the oft pandered nuclear disaster.

hollus
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by hollus » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:06 am

Too far into politics... back to cars, please?
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:47 am

hollus wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:06 am
Too far into politics... back to cars, please?
:-$
:-#



:lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:10 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:00 am
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:27 pm


That'll be Trump trying to be protectionist rather than climate denier, however.
And without emission control, he's opening up the market to the cheap Chinese cars (and the always fun Lada Niva)
Nah, Chinese imports will be subjected to tariffs sufficient to make them uneconomic.
Tinfulls of worms here though. IF they did go down that road, There are far more 'chinese car makers' than most people realise. They could easily slip a 'made in China' model in with the prestige brand names they already own, or even buy up an American brand specifically to do this/
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

loner
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:10 pm

China plans to put a million fuel cell vehicles on the roads by 2030.
China to use hydrogen fuel incentives to boost the growth of the technology in the nation
http://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/china-t ... n/8538228/
para bellum.

Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:51 pm

loner wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:10 pm
China plans to put a million fuel cell vehicles on the roads by 2030.
China to use hydrogen fuel incentives to boost the growth of the technology in the nation
http://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/china-t ... n/8538228/
Interesting link, thanks.
But... A million in 10 years? and in a specific press?
That is probably less than are currently using recycled chip oil already.

It would be good if there was a viable alternative, even if just to help keep the cost down but I think there are (or were) half a million LPG cars on UK roads so don't really see the savings. (except processing)

I wonder if it may ever become possible to have a hybrid cell and battery?
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Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Brake Horse Power » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:08 pm

What do you see as a hybrid cell? :)

I like the China fuel cell news, if they have a plan they just go big! Funny enough here in West Europe there is so much knowledge but every step is so painfully slow. Better team up with the Chinese in order to do some serious business soon..

Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Brake Horse Power wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:08 pm
What do you see as a hybrid cell? :)

I like the China fuel cell news, if they have a plan they just go big! Funny enough here in West Europe there is so much knowledge but every step is so painfully slow. Better team up with the Chinese in order to do some serious business soon..
I don't know really. Maybe some sort of 'buffer' that can be filled quickly just for the little extra when the battery is not enough. Sort of like the 'res' (reserve setting) that used to be on motorcycles before gauges were standard.
Enough to depend on being able to get to a charging site or to continue your journey until onr or the other can be topped up. (silly idea realy, wish I had said nothing now :oops: )
There is a vid here about Germany switching to electric
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcXjVxaKzv4
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions