Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Capharol
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Capharol » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:48 pm

I am not seeing any equalty at the start of 2021, because the big teams gonna invest heavily in 2020 to get the car for 2021 and i don't see Haas, Williams, Racing Point, Alfa Romeo, Toro Rosso investing so mach as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull will do (last one first needs to get the Honda deal to be extended)
in 2022 i think the smaller teams can start to close the gap and by 2023/2024 maybe we will have a 4th team able to contest with the top 3 teams......
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:28 pm

If I was Williams, I'd be very tempted to run this year's car next year and spend all of my resources on the 21 car.
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm

Capharol wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:48 pm
I am not seeing any equalty at the start of 2021, because the big teams gonna invest heavily in 2020 to get the car for 2021 and i don't see Haas, Williams, Racing Point, Alfa Romeo, Toro Rosso investing so mach as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull will do (last one first needs to get the Honda deal to be extended)
in 2022 i think the smaller teams can start to close the gap and by 2023/2024 maybe we will have a 4th team able to contest with the top 3 teams......
Supposedly the key is the wind tunnel and CFD restrictions, some teams will use 2020 resources towards 2021, while the big 3 will probably use more towards a 2020 championship(depending on how well they start 2020 season). This could lead to a closer 2021 field, or a dominant situation if someone finds a magic trick.

With aero being by for the dominant performance differentiator, the extra money spent by the big teams is supposedly not as effective due to the wind tunnel and cfd restrictions.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:28 pm
If I was Williams, I'd be very tempted to run this year's car next year and spend all of my resources on the 21 car.
How many races are the chassis good for from a torsional rigidity standpoint? Do they even have to manufacture new chassis?

Poor Russell

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Jolle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:28 pm
If I was Williams, I'd be very tempted to run this year's car next year and spend all of my resources on the 21 car.
How many races are the chassis good for from a torsional rigidity standpoint? Do they even have to manufacture new chassis?

Poor Russell
All depends on your margins. A midfield team car can do two seasons without problem, but top teams, half a season max.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:21 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:28 pm
If I was Williams, I'd be very tempted to run this year's car next year and spend all of my resources on the 21 car.
How many races are the chassis good for from a torsional rigidity standpoint? Do they even have to manufacture new chassis?

Poor Russell
Building a couple of tubs isn't an issue - I was really thinking about the limited CFD / wind tunnel resources that the teams have these days.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:23 am

Im not sure Williams can survive another season like this current one. Plus if they keep the same car next season will be even worse for them.
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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:49 am

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:01 pm
raymondu999 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:25 pm
Bill wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:16 am
I think it's foolish to dismiss Williams with 2021 rules reset and a budget cap any team could be in contention for great things. Maybe Hulk thinks he all great and wonderful but personally I can't remember any stand out race he ever done like Max in Brazil 2016 or Kobayashi in Suzuka 2010 and 2012
Brazil 2012 was surely pretty special, no? And Brazil 2010 Q3
Lucky with the weather, and then he threw away another potential podium. HULK just isn't a top tier driver. I think Willams next to RUS would be great to watch, but he probably prefers to get a paycheck from an FE or LMP1 team.
Your first half of your first statement is interesting to me. Many times, good races/pace in subpar machinery in the wet is seen as indicative of a good driver trapped in subpar machinery. Idk; I saw it as proof he has talent rather than as lucky
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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:50 am

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm
Supposedly the key is the wind tunnel and CFD restrictions, some teams will use 2020 resources towards 2021, while the big 3 will probably use more towards a 2020 championship(depending on how well they start 2020 season). This could lead to a closer 2021 field, or a dominant situation if someone finds a magic trick.

With aero being by for the dominant performance differentiator, the extra money spent by the big teams is supposedly not as effective due to the wind tunnel and cfd restrictions.
Yeah. Throwback to the 2009 McLaren/Ferrari suffering from the 2008 title fight
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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:52 am

Jolle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:28 pm
If I was Williams, I'd be very tempted to run this year's car next year and spend all of my resources on the 21 car.
How many races are the chassis good for from a torsional rigidity standpoint? Do they even have to manufacture new chassis?

Poor Russell
All depends on your margins. A midfield team car can do two seasons without problem, but top teams, half a season max.
Didn’t JB use the same chassis all year in 2009? Maybe was Barrichello. I just remember there were only 3 total chassis, between the 2
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Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Jolle » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 am

raymondu999 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:52 am
Jolle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

How many races are the chassis good for from a torsional rigidity standpoint? Do they even have to manufacture new chassis?

Poor Russell
All depends on your margins. A midfield team car can do two seasons without problem, but top teams, half a season max.
Didn’t JB use the same chassis all year in 2009? Maybe was Barrichello. I just remember there were only 3 total chassis, between the 2
Button used one chassis the whole season indeed.

Aguri Suzuki’s team used one year used Arrows chassis their first year.

What you do have to do is reassess the fixtures every few races, like the front wishbone points.

But in case of a team like Williams, production of a few new tubs isn’t the issue, it’s the design where you can make the difference. With limited time available (because of the rules), they could use the time they have for 2020 for 2021, what they did I think in 2013/2014. In contrast, McLaren came as only team with a whole new concept for 2013 where almost all other teams shifted they ressources at 2014. RedBull made the same call, making them unbeatable late 2013 but trailing in 2014.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:57 pm

raymondu999 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:50 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm
Supposedly the key is the wind tunnel and CFD restrictions, some teams will use 2020 resources towards 2021, while the big 3 will probably use more towards a 2020 championship(depending on how well they start 2020 season). This could lead to a closer 2021 field, or a dominant situation if someone finds a magic trick.

With aero being by for the dominant performance differentiator, the extra money spent by the big teams is supposedly not as effective due to the wind tunnel and cfd restrictions.
Yeah. Throwback to the 2009 McLaren/Ferrari suffering from the 2008 title fight
Yes,but the aero restrictions on wind tunnel time a cfd are much tougher now correct?

raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:40 pm

Yes, on paper at least.
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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:42 pm

Jolle wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 am
Aguri Suzuki’s team used one year used Arrows chassis their first year.
To memory, FIndia’s first year also used the previous year’s chassis. I forgot if that team was Midland or Spyker just before the FIndia takeover
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Capharol
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Capharol » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:23 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm
Capharol wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:48 pm
I am not seeing any equalty at the start of 2021, because the big teams gonna invest heavily in 2020 to get the car for 2021 and i don't see Haas, Williams, Racing Point, Alfa Romeo, Toro Rosso investing so mach as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull will do (last one first needs to get the Honda deal to be extended)
in 2022 i think the smaller teams can start to close the gap and by 2023/2024 maybe we will have a 4th team able to contest with the top 3 teams......
Supposedly the key is the wind tunnel and CFD restrictions, some teams will use 2020 resources towards 2021, while the big 3 will probably use more towards a 2020 championship(depending on how well they start 2020 season). This could lead to a closer 2021 field, or a dominant situation if someone finds a magic trick.

With aero being by for the dominant performance differentiator, the extra money spent by the big teams is supposedly not as effective due to the wind tunnel and cfd restrictions.
how can the "smaller" teams be able to do research earlier then the big 3 who has almost no limit of resources and loads of Money to focus on 2 things.
the "smaller" teams can barely keep up with the top 3 teams, the only one that could really benefit is McLaren but i don't see them close the gap that easily
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