Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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aral
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by aral » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:25 pm

"but these kind of post is what the mods always trying to prevent .... rousing, provocative ones with which driver is better.
now you post a similar thing because the last sentence is just doing this... provoke a discussion on which driver is better and we all know these kind of discussion get overheated"

well , as an individual, i do have an opinion, and as the previous dozen or so posts were on this issue, i felt it is fair to comment !

"Seb obviously is good enough to beat anybody, if he has a better car and with that strong back end, but in Seb's car Lewis would've won 2017 and 18"

and there is the substantiation ! How any person can say what would have happened , is beyond comprehension !

right person in the right car at the right time = wdc. and that is the case since F1 began and in GP before that.

but you are probably right....all this has nothing to do with the silly season, so maybe i should put my mod hat back on?

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:27 pm

Capharol wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:46 pm

but these kind of post is what the mods always trying to prevent .... rousing, provocative ones with which driver is better.
now you post a similar thing because the last sentence is just doing this... provoke a discussion on which driver is better and we all know these kind of discussion get overheated
"Do as I say, not as I do", as the saying goes. :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:38 pm

Why would Hamilton go to Ferrari? They don't seem capable of a season-long campaign in the way that Mercedes are. Going to Ferrari would also mean learning and fighting the team's internal political games as well as the competition from other teams.

A driver would have to be desparate to go there. Other than being able to say "I beat my team mate", what would Hamilton get from it?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Capharol » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:47 pm

aral wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:25 pm
"but these kind of post is what the mods always trying to prevent .... rousing, provocative ones with which driver is better.
now you post a similar thing because the last sentence is just doing this... provoke a discussion on which driver is better and we all know these kind of discussion get overheated"

well , as an individual, i do have an opinion, and as the previous dozen or so posts were on this issue, i felt it is fair to comment !

"Seb obviously is good enough to beat anybody, if he has a better car and with that strong back end, but in Seb's car Lewis would've won 2017 and 18"

and there is the substantiation ! How any person can say what would have happened , is beyond comprehension !

right person in the right car at the right time = wdc. and that is the case since F1 began and in GP before that.

but you are probably right....all this has nothing to do with the silly season, so maybe i should put my mod hat back on?
of course you have an opinion, thats human and you are free to say your opinion but i find it a bit strange that you write a sentence that can be provocative and cause a heated discussion which the Mods are trying to prevent ....
but yes, right driver in the right car normally ends up with a title .....
and if you should put back your mod hat on i leave that up to you and is not mine to say or decide
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:27 pm
"Do as I say, not as I do", as the saying goes. :wink:
this saying is not familiar to me, but i think i understand what you are trying to say :wink:
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

izzy
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by izzy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:29 pm

aral wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:25 pm
"but these kind of post is what the mods always trying to prevent .... rousing, provocative ones with which driver is better.
now you post a similar thing because the last sentence is just doing this... provoke a discussion on which driver is better and we all know these kind of discussion get overheated"

well , as an individual, i do have an opinion, and as the previous dozen or so posts were on this issue, i felt it is fair to comment !

"Seb obviously is good enough to beat anybody, if he has a better car and with that strong back end, but in Seb's car Lewis would've won 2017 and 18"

and there is the substantiation ! How any person can say what would have happened , is beyond comprehension !

right person in the right car at the right time = wdc. and that is the case since F1 began and in GP before that.

but you are probably right....all this has nothing to do with the silly season, so maybe i should put my mod hat back on?
my dad was a mod on the Autosport forum and he says this was the hardest thing, having to be soooo unnaturally perfect in your actual own F1 posting! So that's cool :)

The calculation about 2017 and 18 is just the 80 points Seb lost each of those years with mistakes, that he made and Lewis didn't. If we swap those from the Ferrari to the Mercedes and vice-versa the wdc goes with them. Obviously it didn't happen so i can't prove it, but there is that basis. They need the car and also the driver, both, and in fact i think it's the driver making more difference than ever recently, cos that calculation even works for the Red Bull last year!

And i think it is all relevant because obviously Ferrari have been seeing all this and Seb's errors are probably why they put Charles in and dropped wingman Kimi, but Charles is young and this is why the subject of Lewis-to-Ferrari has even come up, that they know with Lewis (or Fernando even) they'd have had those championships, because he does make that difference, and probably to the team morale, as well as the simple points

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by AMG.Tzan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 pm

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:53 am
I don’t think Lewis will perform to the same level in Ferrari as he has done in the Merc, tbh. Ferrari seem unable to provide that warmth/comfort/belonging to their drivers on which Hamilton seemingly to me has thrived on at Mercedes. Much like Vettel thrived on at Red Bull.

Hamilton has had moments of anger/mini-tantrums - complaining about wrong strategy, wrong tyres etc, and the Merc team has held his hand and guided him through those moments. That will not be available at Ferrari.

If he comes into a 2019-type ferrari (competitively) where it is sort of a distant 2nd best, we could see him - imo - in a situation like 2010. Some flawless races (Lewis always has at least a couple every year) but a couple of moments where he has felt the need to overdrive which has caused mistakes.

I’m not saying he isn’t a great driver which he obviously is - but I dont think he will be a goodfit for Ferrari. In hindsight, neither was Vettel.
spot on. Agree with you 100%. It is difficult to handle Lec and pressure from Ferrari. Better be where you are.
If car is not good, Hamilton cannot extract full performance from the car. The only person who can help ferrari is Alonso or look wing man for Lec in 2021.

Even if they have Wingman to lec I don't believe they can win 2021 and beyond. The only chance would be after 2025 role change.
I can't understand this nostalgia for Alonso from so many people...don't know what you remember from him! Overdriving a Mclaren-Honda while battling mid-field drivers?? Losing 2007, 2010 and 2012 titles because what? Weren't his cars fast enough?? Or wasn't he overdriving his cars back then? :lol:

On our topic, Hamilton i believe has no need to go to Ferrari and he has spoken of loyalty after he retires, refering to how Mercedes treats its drivers after retirement so it seems he wants to stay with Mercedes!

The only way he could go to Ferrari is if Mercedes decides to retire! I don't know i just feel they themselves don't know for sure what they will do after 2020! Wolff and Hamilton both speaking of each other's future plans and waiting on what the other will do seems like something is going on behind closed doors! But why would Mercedes leave F1??

Hamilton back to Mclaren-Mercedes?? Do you guys believe this can happen??

Also Gasly MUST leave Red Bull just like Sainz did...he can be an exceptional driver i believe but where can he go? Renault maybe if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari if Vettel retires??

Verstappen in the Mercedes...that would be great! [-o<
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:08 am

aral wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:35 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:39 pm
Next year will be very telling, If Vettel can get close to Leclerc again, then Lewis will know that he has a very good chance to beat Leclerc. As its clear as day that over the last 3 years, Lewis is head and shoulders above Seb.
that sort of comment does not hold up ! Vettel was able to beat Hamilton four years on the trot. what was the reason for that apart from driving skill?....vettel had a better and more reliable car. now hamilton is in a better and more reliable car, so he is winning. that does not mean that one driver is better than the other. it should also be remembered that vettel won four titles in a row....hamilton has not done that yet.
:shock: :shock:

Ok first of all...
Lewis could have won six in a row if he had a more reliable car in 2016. Not to mention the whole number 1 driver benefits Vettel enjoyed.

Second of all..
Vettel lost to Lewis in 2018 in arguably the faster car if we assume Leclerc's driving is a gauge of true potntial of what could have been done in the 2018 Ferrari. I would say 2017 too but i realise the Ferrari was less reliable that year so i excuse him there.

Vettel is being beat by a second year driver in his first year in Vettel's team but also a 21 year old who is not just faster but also has better race pace! Raw speed is easy to accept but better race pace and lower error rate is very tough! I can't imagine how it feels. I feel it for Vettel fans but these are the facts.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wynters
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Wynters » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:07 pm

Hamilton to Ferrari is certainly a possibility but I can't help but think it's being played up because both Hamilton and Ferrari benefit from the idea being talked about. Hamilton does because he's negotiating a new contract and creating a phantom competitive offer encourages Mercedes to up their bid for him. Ferrari benefit because a) they are portrayed as an attractive destination for a six-time WDC and b) because it gives them the possibility of a bit of leverage over their own drivers should they be pushing to renegotiate contracts (although I think Leclerc is too young to be manipulated that way and Vettel too wise).

In terms of Vettel and his seat, this is an absolutely key moment for him, a moment he's not had to face since he entered F1 (if ever). He's just been beaten by someone in the same car, despite being lead driver and with all the advantages that brings. When he lost to Ricciardo, he was heading to Ferrari and could probably justify it to himself. Now, there's no excuses. The question for me is, how will Vettel respond? Will he dig deep, cross-examine himself to find where and how he needs to improve and then put in the work to do that? Leclerc might be the best thing that's happened to Vettel since he won his 4th WDC. I'm really excited to see which Vettel turns up in Australia in a few months time.

izzy
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by izzy » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:27 pm

Wynters wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:07 pm
Hamilton to Ferrari is certainly a possibility but I can't help but think it's being played up because both Hamilton and Ferrari benefit from the idea being talked about. Hamilton does because he's negotiating a new contract and creating a phantom competitive offer encourages Mercedes to up their bid for him. Ferrari benefit because a) they are portrayed as an attractive destination for a six-time WDC and b) because it gives them the possibility of a bit of leverage over their own drivers should they be pushing to renegotiate contracts (although I think Leclerc is too young to be manipulated that way and Vettel too wise).

In terms of Vettel and his seat, this is an absolutely key moment for him, a moment he's not had to face since he entered F1 (if ever). He's just been beaten by someone in the same car, despite being lead driver and with all the advantages that brings. When he lost to Ricciardo, he was heading to Ferrari and could probably justify it to himself. Now, there's no excuses. The question for me is, how will Vettel respond? Will he dig deep, cross-examine himself to find where and how he needs to improve and then put in the work to do that? Leclerc might be the best thing that's happened to Vettel since he won his 4th WDC. I'm really excited to see which Vettel turns up in Australia in a few months time.
this is a nice post :). yes it's good for Lewis and Ferrari isn't it, for the reasons you say exactly, plus a great story for the media. Charles is managed by Nicolas Todt isn't he so he will for sure be looking for a huge pay rise! Huge going on galactic

Seb I think will stay and do his best, even if it turns out not to be quite enough. He was always known for working hard i think, going to the Pirelli factory and all that, getting flak from Maurizio Arrivabene for interfering in the factory. If anything he's too intense in the car and loses the fine judgment he needs, but can he learn to control that, at 32 already?

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by GPR-A » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:07 pm

The only reason why Hamilton would consider an option outside of Mercedes, is if Toto plans to quit Mercedes. In a recent interview, Lewis mentioned that he is waiting for Toto to sort out his own options before having contract discussions with Lewis.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/12/01 ... s-private/
For many, many years I´ve never, ever sat down and considered other options because we´ve been just driving straight ahead into the path that we´ve been on…,” revealed the Briton after winning the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

“I know Toto is also looking at his options in terms of his future. So I´m waiting to see what he´s doing with that,” he added.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Big Tea » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:10 pm

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 pm
I can't understand this nostalgia for Alonso from so many people...don't know what you remember from him! Overdriving a Mclaren-Honda while battling mid-field drivers?? Losing 2007, 2010 and 2012 titles because what? Weren't his cars fast enough?? Or wasn't he overdriving his cars back then? :lol:

On our topic, Hamilton i believe has no need to go to Ferrari and he has spoken of loyalty after he retires, refering to how Mercedes treats its drivers after retirement so it seems he wants to stay with Mercedes!

The only way he could go to Ferrari is if Mercedes decides to retire! I don't know i just feel they themselves don't know for sure what they will do after 2020! Wolff and Hamilton both speaking of each other's future plans and waiting on what the other will do seems like something is going on behind closed doors! But why would Mercedes leave F1??

Hamilton back to Mclaren-Mercedes?? Do you guys believe this can happen??

Also Gasly MUST leave Red Bull just like Sainz did...he can be an exceptional driver i believe but where can he go? Renault maybe if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari if Vettel retires??

Verstappen in the Mercedes...that would be great! [-o<
[/quote]

Incoming!! Duck
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:37 pm

Wynters wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:07 pm
Hamilton to Ferrari is certainly a possibility but I can't help but think it's being played up because both Hamilton and Ferrari benefit from the idea being talked about. Hamilton does because he's negotiating a new contract and creating a phantom competitive offer encourages Mercedes to up their bid for him. Ferrari benefit because a) they are portrayed as an attractive destination for a six-time WDC and b) because it gives them the possibility of a bit of leverage over their own drivers should they be pushing to renegotiate contracts (although I think Leclerc is too young to be manipulated that way and Vettel too wise).

In terms of Vettel and his seat, this is an absolutely key moment for him, a moment he's not had to face since he entered F1 (if ever). He's just been beaten by someone in the same car, despite being lead driver and with all the advantages that brings. When he lost to Ricciardo, he was heading to Ferrari and could probably justify it to himself. Now, there's no excuses. The question for me is, how will Vettel respond? Will he dig deep, cross-examine himself to find where and how he needs to improve and then put in the work to do that? Leclerc might be the best thing that's happened to Vettel since he won his 4th WDC. I'm really excited to see which Vettel turns up in Australia in a few months time.
Check out my signature! Until Vettel does what it says he will never beat LeClerc.

With regards to salary and such he needs that Leverage at Ferrari.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Jolle » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:10 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 pm
I can't understand this nostalgia for Alonso from so many people...don't know what you remember from him! Overdriving a Mclaren-Honda while battling mid-field drivers?? Losing 2007, 2010 and 2012 titles because what? Weren't his cars fast enough?? Or wasn't he overdriving his cars back then? :lol:

On our topic, Hamilton i believe has no need to go to Ferrari and he has spoken of loyalty after he retires, refering to how Mercedes treats its drivers after retirement so it seems he wants to stay with Mercedes!

The only way he could go to Ferrari is if Mercedes decides to retire! I don't know i just feel they themselves don't know for sure what they will do after 2020! Wolff and Hamilton both speaking of each other's future plans and waiting on what the other will do seems like something is going on behind closed doors! But why would Mercedes leave F1??

Hamilton back to Mclaren-Mercedes?? Do you guys believe this can happen??

Also Gasly MUST leave Red Bull just like Sainz did...he can be an exceptional driver i believe but where can he go? Renault maybe if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari if Vettel retires??

Verstappen in the Mercedes...that would be great! [-o<
Incoming!! Duck
[/quote]

Hamilton is indeed a very loyal driver, basically on the Mercedes payroll for more then 20 years now. But, listening beween the lines of his latest interviews, he's not so much loyal to the company but to the people. Before it was Ron Dennis and then Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff. If Toto stays at Mercedes, Hamilton will stay for sure, if he decides to leave, Hamilton will take a closer look if Mercedes is still his best option or more with a small team of trusted people to, for instance, Ferrari, where Philip Morris money is no object.

For a return to McLaren, not a chance. They aren't a worksteam so not only can't they afford someone like Hamilton, they won't have the status or the capabilities to win championships.

Who knows... maybe RedBull will sign a blank check to have him drive a Newey car.... Hamilton and Verstappen in one team with the marketing machine of RedBull behind them, would be gold for the brand.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Wass85 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:07 pm

It's strange how Hamilton now is concerned about what Toto is doing.

When Nico was in the team you got the impression Hamilton was aloof around Toto and rightly so because I believe Toto was more pally with Rosberg.

Unf
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Unf » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:28 pm

Switch between Ham and Vet seems logic - Mercedes would like to have German driver again, and Ferrari need "something special" to win championship again.

but

It seems logic only if Ham will win 7th championship with Mercedes in 2020 and then he would take a risk to not beat Schumacher anymore... or beat him on... Ferrari.