Racing Point RP20

[Tzk]

I still believe RP just read and understood the rules better than anybode else. Just like Brawn did with the diffuser. It's obviously not the most beautiful process to construct a competitive car, but i believe they're on the legal side of things. We'll see how the court case turns out.

I also noted that Snafzauer new the exact date when the 2020 rules are applied (1 day before first FP1) so looks like RP knew exactly what they were doing...

[jjn9128]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n=widget-1

"Racing Point received 2019-spec Formula 1 brake ducts from Mercedes in January as spare parts for its RP20 car in pre-season testing."

Oops.

Yep. On Jan 6th mate. 1) that ain't CAD and 2) the FIA were happy with that arrangement as they were parts bought and paid for in 2019.

[subcritical71]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n=widget-1

"Racing Point received 2019-spec Formula 1 brake ducts from Mercedes in January as spare parts for its RP20 car in pre-season testing."

Oops.

Yep. On Jan 6th mate. 1) that ain't CAD and 2) the FIA were happy with that arrangement as they were parts bought and paid for in 2019.

That’s talking out both side of their mouth though isn’t it? Also, for testing the car does not need to meet all of the regulations, IIRC.

[nico5]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n=widget-1

"Racing Point received 2019-spec Formula 1 brake ducts from Mercedes in January as spare parts for its RP20 car in pre-season testing."

Oops.

Yep. On Jan 6th mate. 1) that ain't CAD and 2) the FIA were happy with that arrangement as they were parts bought and paid for in 2019.

Getting a listed part that only can be used in 2020. How do you call that?

[Blackout]

I still believe RP just read and understood the rules better than anybode else. Just like Brawn did with the diffuser. It's obviously not the most beautiful process to construct a competitive car, but i believe they're on the legal side of things. We'll see how the court case turns out.

I also noted that Snafzauer new the exact date when the 2020 rules are applied (1 day before first FP1) so looks like RP knew exactly what they were doing...

Are you serious?
Haas* knew the rules, communicated the matter with the FIA and acted accordingly.
Not RP.

*And Renault.

[strad]

It's not right or fair to change the rules after you've allowed people to invest time and money building something. Especially just before FP1.
Somebody thinks it's okay because there was a length of time brought about by postponing the first race? I don't.
The rules should have been good until the next year. You don't change rules willy nilly.

[rohan]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

[rohan]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n=widget-1

"Racing Point received 2019-spec Formula 1 brake ducts from Mercedes in January as spare parts for its RP20 car in pre-season testing."

Oops.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 1Uy9c.html
In a 14-page document issued at Silverstone, the FIA stewards outlined in detail why Renault’s protest had been upheld. The crux of the matter focused on when the new rules around listed parts were applied, Racing Point arguing that the new sporting regulations only came into force a day before FP1 in Austria.


Oops.

RP is wrong on that - the rules are clear in that they come into force on 1st January.

A big oops from you, and an even bigger oops from the people at RP who need to learn to read.

[Big Tea]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

The article said they were 'delivered' on Jan 6th, I do not recall any mention of when they were bought. Quite possible that production only began after return to work after Xmas, so the 'deal' and payment could have been well before that, could it not?

[subcritical71]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

You may want to read that again... They were delivered parts in early Jan 2020. They had the designs in late 2018, early 2019. The reason they were not penalized for the 2020 part delivery was that they already had the designs (can’t unlearn what you’ve already learned) and were only a few days into 2020.

[Mchamilton]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

No you are completely wrong. RP has the cad data for these brake ducts last year, they didnt use the rrars because they didnt suit the high rikw concept of that car. This is grandfather clause that Stroll and otmar have made comments on. They had the designs of both the front and the rear BD at the same time, they can run the fronts because they ran them last year, but cant run the rears because they didnt run them last year essentially, but no where in the regs is that written.

[Red Rock Mutley]

Here's the link to the Stewards decision in full

I hadn't appreciated the decision doesn't concern itself with when the transfer of information occurred. The rule on listed parts is firm, both brake ducts on the 2020 car must be designed by the constructor.

What the Stewards have subjectively said, is it would be unfair to disallow parts that have been previously incorporated in cars of the past and have significant effort invested in them by the constructor (this is the grandfathering-in process). It's somewhat of an unusual approach, as they have used a "spirit of the regulation" interpretation in determining when a design become as much one team as it does another. The stated aim of the regulation being to prevent a constructor gaining an advantage by short cutting the design process

With the front brake ducts, the test is met due to the investment of sufficient design effort during the 2019 season. Racing Point extensively copied the Mercedes design for the RP19, and then developed that design as the season progressed. Essentially, the front brake ducts at the end of the 2019 season were as much Racing Point as they were Mercedes and the incremental development of the 2020 front duct has not short cut the design process

The rear brake ducts, however, the design process was started in late 2019 and was specifically directed towards the 2020 car, and as such Racing Point should not have relied on the design information previously obtained from Mercedes, as that did short cut the design process

4. If Racing Point had asked the FIA at the time (September‐ November 2019) if it could use the CAD
models of the Mercedes W10 RBDs as the basis for the RP20's RBDs, the FIA would have said
definitely not, because (in contrast to the position in respect of the FBDs) Racing Point was not
refining a component that had already been incorporated into the DNA of the RP19. Instead, it
was introducing a completely new component for the RP20, which it knew was classified as a LP
under the SRs (because they had been issued on 30 April 2019)

[SiLo]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

Just to clear this up as I've seen multiple people hark on about it. This is not what happened.

RP already had the CAD designs for these exact parts as they were purchased in 2019. Mercedes simply supplied them a built version of IP they already owned because RP weren't sure if they could finish building a set themselves in time for testing.

I don't know about you, but in my book, owning the CAD designs from 2019 and receiving a back up part of the exact design at a later date is absolutely fine. As such, they weren't even used anyway.

Hopefully that put's this dead horse to rest.

[SiLo]

Here's the link to the Stewards decision in full

I hadn't appreciated the decision doesn't concern itself with when the transfer of information occurred. The rule on listed parts is firm, both brake ducts on the 2020 car must be designed by the constructor.

What the Stewards have subjectively said, is it would be unfair to disallow parts that have been previously incorporated in cars of the past and have significant effort invested in them by the constructor (this is the grandfathering-in process). It's somewhat of an unusual approach, as they have used a "spirit of the regulation" interpretation in determining when a design become as much one team as it does another. The stated aim of the regulation being to prevent a constructor gaining an advantage by short cutting the design process

With the front brake ducts, the test is met due to the investment of sufficient design effort during the 2019 season. Racing Point extensively copied the Mercedes design for the RP19, and then developed that design as the season progressed. Essentially, the front brake ducts at the end of the 2019 season were as much Racing Point as they were Mercedes and the incremental development of the 2020 front duct has not short cut the design process

The rear brake ducts, however, the design process was started in late 2019 and was specifically directed towards the 2020 car, and as such Racing Point should not have relied on the design information previously obtained from Mercedes, as that did short cut the design process

4. If Racing Point had asked the FIA at the time (September‐ November 2019) if it could use the CAD
models of the Mercedes W10 RBDs as the basis for the RP20's RBDs, the FIA would have said
definitely not, because (in contrast to the position in respect of the FBDs) Racing Point was not
refining a component that had already been incorporated into the DNA of the RP19. Instead, it
was introducing a completely new component for the RP20, which it knew was classified as a LP
under the SRs (because they had been issued on 30 April 2019)

Watch this great summary get completely ignored because it goes against the current rhetoric that RP are a bunch of cheats and Mercedes colluded with them on it.

[Big Tea]

Okay it's very simple.

• Last season brake ducts were non-listed parts

• Last season Racing point received CAD for front and rear brake ducts from Mercedes - legally

Wrong - Mercedes gave RP the designs for the brake ducts after 1st January, thereby violating the sporting regulations. It was entirely illegal and RP should be thrown out of the season, as per precedent.

Just to clear this up as I've seen multiple people hark on about it. This is not what happened.

RP already had the CAD designs for these exact parts as they were purchased in 2019. Mercedes simply supplied them a built version of IP they already owned because RP weren't sure if they could finish building a set themselves in time for testing.

I don't know about you, but in my book, owning the CAD designs from 2019 and receiving a back up part of the exact design at a later date is absolutely fine. As such, they weren't even used anyway.

Hopefully that put's this dead horse to rest.

As is covered by -

Parts Transfer of Jan. 6, 2020
1. It is noted that both Mercedes and Racing Point acknowledge that there was a transfer from the
former to the latter of a complete set of Mercedes 2019 BDs that arrived at Racing Point on or
about Jan. 6, 2020. It is the opinion of the FIA that this transfer did not constitute a significant
breach of the SRs. It did not violate paragraph 1 of Appendix 6 because the parts were not used.
It did not significantly violate paragraph 4 of Appendix 6 because there was nothing in the transfer
that had not been legitimately provided to Racing Point in 2019 under the then in force
regulations. Additionally, there is the additional mitigating factor that the BDs had just officially
changed status six days earlier.