Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:56 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:24 am
Phlumbert wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:24 am


I was under the impression the re-working of the rear lower wishbones on the W11 was in preparation for the floor change next year? If so, they're on good track already.

Pretty good video. Max seems to be closer in qualifying but it seems like they still have some way to go in race trim. If it weren't for the safety car in the last race, Lewis would have probably finished like 20s ahead of Max. Then again, I guess we can't look in to performances during the last race too much as the track temps were crazy low.
Think you would be correct about that. Should be interesting to see how they continue to develop that area.

I'm curious if Merc struggled getting their tires into the window over the course of a single lap in Germany. I think RB definitely made progress, but I don't think the W11 was all the way hooked up in terms of quali pace. The 'ring is also not very power-sensitive.
Define power sensitive? I would imagine that although the straights aren't preposterously long, because they involve going uphill and scrubbing speed in flat out corners, that power does have an influence. Say two cars get on the power at the same time exiting a corner, but one car has higher average speed through the corner, not because the driver took a better line, or because the car has more aero, but because engine power allows one driver to scrub less speed in the corner. End result one driver can carry an extra 3 or 4 kmh through a corner consistently.
Several factors contribute to whether a circuit is considered power-sensitive. The length of the straights is a critical factor. The number of long straights is another. Furthermore, the nature of the corners, and in particular, the nature of the corners leading up to the straights are the other factors. Altitude also plays a role.

Current power-sensitive tracks (not an exclusive list, and in no particular order): Monza, Russia, Spa, Silverstone (particularly after the '17 reg changes), Baku, Austria, and Canada.

Least power-sensitive tracks: Monaco, Hungary, and Singapore, to name a few.

The 'ring is somewhere in between those extremes, but nearer the less power-sensitive venues.

"It’s not the most power-sensitive circuit, so power limited. Power and traction will be less critical there."

- LEC when asked about the 'ring's circuit characteristics ahead of the Eifel GP.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W11

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The Mercedes' low rake concept will serve it well next year.

DAS will be missed, hoewever Merc should still have the edge. I dare say they will be even faster next year.

By cutting back the floor there is an opportunity to squeeze an new vortex or bend the exting on running in front if the rear wheels along the cut in the floor. Floor area is lost, and thus less distance from pressure peak to edge of floor, but i see some new device being invented to counteract this. Floor slats are banned so vortices will be a little more destabilized. Looking forward to the engineering solutions to be invented.
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PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Honestly I can still see a way to use DAS in the regs, albeit it would be a heavier/more limited setup to work with the wording, which might negate the point

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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PhillipM wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:57 am
Honestly I can still see a way to use DAS in the regs, albeit it would be a heavier/more limited setup to work with the wording, which might negate the point
Feel free to elaborate. You have piqued my curiosity.

On a side note, when they do lose DAS, they're going to pick up performance from weight savings and the ability to play with ballast more.

M840TR
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Re: Mercedes W11

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zibby43 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:13 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:57 am
Honestly I can still see a way to use DAS in the regs, albeit it would be a heavier/more limited setup to work with the wording, which might negate the point
Feel free to elaborate. You have piqued my curiosity.

On a side note, when they do lose DAS, they're going to pick up performance from weight savings and the ability to play with ballast more.
I reckon they might opt for more adventurous alternatives to ballast options as a result of lesser weight, akin to the new rear suspension that required some strengthening with some weight penalty.

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11

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I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I only just realised this myself.

DAS allows Mercedes to heat up the front tyres irrespective of the rears. Most other forms of heating but energy into all of them; breaking, weaving etc. Now they can heat the rears with burnouts, and the fronts with DAS to properly tune the car.

it's not just about getting MORE heat into the tyres or making it easier, its about that control they get over which tyres get the heat.
Felipe Baby!

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Do burnouts heat the tire carcass or just the surface?
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OO7
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Re: Mercedes W11

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 am
I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I only just realised this myself.

DAS allows Mercedes to heat up the front tyres irrespective of the rears. Most other forms of heating but energy into all of them; breaking, weaving etc. Now they can heat the rears with burnouts, and the fronts with DAS to properly tune the car.

it's not just about getting MORE heat into the tyres or making it easier, its about that control they get over which tyres get the heat.
DAS allows for a great temperature differential to be generated between the front and rear, however altering the brake bias has the same effect to a lesser degree (I think).

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11

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OO7 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:50 am
SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 am
I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I only just realised this myself.

DAS allows Mercedes to heat up the front tyres irrespective of the rears. Most other forms of heating but energy into all of them; breaking, weaving etc. Now they can heat the rears with burnouts, and the fronts with DAS to properly tune the car.

it's not just about getting MORE heat into the tyres or making it easier, its about that control they get over which tyres get the heat.
DAS allows for a great temperature differential to be generated between the front and rear, however altering the brake bias has the same effect to a lesser degree (I think).
I think the difference would still be quite large. Braking puts energy into all the tyres unless you go really far forwards on the brake balance and then you risk locking and damaging the tyre.
Felipe Baby!

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes W11

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OO7 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:50 am
SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 am
I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I only just realised this myself.

DAS allows Mercedes to heat up the front tyres irrespective of the rears. Most other forms of heating but energy into all of them; breaking, weaving etc. Now they can heat the rears with burnouts, and the fronts with DAS to properly tune the car.

it's not just about getting MORE heat into the tyres or making it easier, its about that control they get over which tyres get the heat.
DAS allows for a great temperature differential to be generated between the front and rear, however altering the brake bias has the same effect to a lesser degree (I think).
Can you still 'light up' the rears now, or is it all controlled? Not suggesting T/C of course, I mean no one would do that would they? :roll:

I just seem to recall someone saying they can not do donuts (to face the right way) these days. May have been Seb
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e30ernest
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
OO7 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:50 am
SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 am
I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I only just realised this myself.

DAS allows Mercedes to heat up the front tyres irrespective of the rears. Most other forms of heating but energy into all of them; breaking, weaving etc. Now they can heat the rears with burnouts, and the fronts with DAS to properly tune the car.

it's not just about getting MORE heat into the tyres or making it easier, its about that control they get over which tyres get the heat.
DAS allows for a great temperature differential to be generated between the front and rear, however altering the brake bias has the same effect to a lesser degree (I think).
Can you still 'light up' the rears now, or is it all controlled? Not suggesting T/C of course, I mean no one would do that would they? :roll:

I just seem to recall someone saying they can not do donuts (to face the right way) these days. May have been Seb
I think the difference with donuts is that you'd be dropping the clutch so you put more strain (shock) into the drivetrain. Doing burnouts on high horse engines like these is just a matter of flooring the throttle to break traction. Because of that the torque applied to the drive train would be no more than what its max load would be at full acceleration (maybe even less).

DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Merc experimenting or is das just not useful enough for them anymore?Image

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Last edited by DarthPlagueisTheVise on Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes W11

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Some nice detail shots from Motorsport.com

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Front brake assembly:

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DAS-less:

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