2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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At current development rates, electric motors + batteries will have comparable weight and better form factor than an ICE in about 50 years. If we pour resources into developing batteries maybe 30 years. Developing ICE's are a stop gap while you develop your electric cars. Everyone is going electric, in the end electric motors are just more efficient, the only limiting factor is batteries.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

mzso
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:08 pm
At current development rates, electric motors + batteries will have comparable weight and better form factor than an ICE in about 50 years. If we pour resources into developing batteries maybe 30 years. Developing ICE's are a stop gap while you develop your electric cars. Everyone is going electric, in the end electric motors are just more efficient, the only limiting factor is batteries.
It's not like you can break the law of physics with time. If they can make work a more advanced chemistry the there will be a big leap, if not then things'll change very little.
As I recall matching ICE by weight only thoretically possible with metal-air batteris (Li-air, mainly), and that's very problematic and the need supply oxygen to the battery creates a lot of overhead.

gruntguru
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:14 pm
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:06 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:45 pm
Even if fast charging comes down to 15 to 20 min, that means the car has to be there for probably 20 to 30 min. Look at the throughput becoming a tailback in a filling station if a tanker is in. and that is with a 'stopped time' of 5 min max.

Even if half the bays in a supermarkets have charging, I don't think I would be happy to depend on finding one in any reasonable time. I have tried several electic cars, and hope it does become viable as I like them.
- Fast charging will be down to 5 minutes before combustion cars disappear from the roads.
- A large proportion of charging will still be done overnight at home so filling stations will not do 100% of "filling" as is the case for liquid fuel.
- Charging stations will appear everywhere there are car parks - shopping centres, workplaces, kerbside etc - again reducing the reliance on "filling stations"
- In a large number of instances, "filling stations" will not be used to "fill up". It will be a case of - my battery is nearly flat - drop in and buy a coffee - charge the car for 3 minutes - enough to get me home where the charging is cheaper and slower (good for battery life).
Same problem. 'At home' is probably not possible for about 80% of people.
Those who live on 'main roads' as they are called in UK, blocks, tenements or anywhere you can not park off the road and where people do not walk. Topping up is fine if you have some where todo your 'main' charge.
You totally missed the point I was making . . . very soon EV charging will be very convenient, even for those where "charging at home" is not possible.
je suis charlie

gruntguru
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:43 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:45 pm
mzso wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:27 pm

I don't think you're getting his point. Wherever people park there can be chargers. Laying some cables and installing a some charging posts is not rocket science.
Plus EVs won't just appear for everyone at a snap of a finger. As the number of cars start to increase chargers will appear on a building/neighborhood/community/precinct whatever scale, if home charging is not possible.
Show me! If I cant see them I will not buy one

(edit. sorry come over far more bolshi than i intended )
Having said all that, I was surprised to find how many charging points there are in UK.

https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/#points

However, within 10 miles of me there are 11 including those on the motorway, and those at the dealer.
So very selective.
Compared to OZ, you live in EV paradise. Lack of Gov't incentives, wide open spaces and consequent slow uptake means charging facilities lag the rest of the world. OTOH the majority of Australians can park on private property making home charging possible. Widespread rooftop solar makes the power cheaper for many.
je suis charlie

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Big Tea
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:20 am
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:14 pm
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:06 pm

- Fast charging will be down to 5 minutes before combustion cars disappear from the roads.
- A large proportion of charging will still be done overnight at home so filling stations will not do 100% of "filling" as is the case for liquid fuel.
- Charging stations will appear everywhere there are car parks - shopping centres, workplaces, kerbside etc - again reducing the reliance on "filling stations"
- In a large number of instances, "filling stations" will not be used to "fill up". It will be a case of - my battery is nearly flat - drop in and buy a coffee - charge the car for 3 minutes - enough to get me home where the charging is cheaper and slower (good for battery life).
Same problem. 'At home' is probably not possible for about 80% of people.
Those who live on 'main roads' as they are called in UK, blocks, tenements or anywhere you can not park off the road and where people do not walk. Topping up is fine if you have some where todo your 'main' charge.
You totally missed the point I was making . . . very soon EV charging will be very convenient, even for those where "charging at home" is not possible.
It will come, but it is one of the chicken and egg things. People will not have cars they can not charge easily and they will not build charging infrastructure until people are using it.

I had an original idea of it being 'up to speed' well before 2030, now I am doubting it.
Its only 10 years, but it will involve disrupting so much of the existing infrastructure making it more expensive in not only direct cost but things like planning and obtaining sites.

As I said, I hope the optimists are right and I am wrong.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

Dr. Acula
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:43 pm
I had an original idea of it being 'up to speed' well before 2030, now I am doubting it.
Its only 10 years, but it will involve disrupting so much of the existing infrastructure making it more expensive in not only direct cost but things like planning and obtaining sites.

As I said, I hope the optimists are right and I am wrong.
Even 2030 is optimistic. In my opinion there's one mayor issue especially in cities, the electrical grid. You can build thousands of charging points rather quickly, but unfortunately the electricity doesn't come to them by magic. It needs infrastructure to support the demand. Not just the production facilities i.e. powerplants but also transformer stations, power lines and so on. Imagine a parking garage for 200 cars and just 50 EVs charge there with 100kW each...that means 5MW of power. That would normally be enough power for about 800 households. Most existing electrical hardware will not support such peaks in demand in a very limited area.

gruntguru
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Being "up to speed" really only means 50% penetration. 10 years is plenty of time to get to a 50% EV fleet - the infrastructure will roll out incrementally.

Power grids will experience major disruption anyway with new (renewable) generation and storage sites popping up everywhere and a lot of distributed "micro-generation" (eg rooftop solar) and micro-storage (eg home batteries and EV's as grid storage).
je suis charlie

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Big Tea
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:15 pm
Being "up to speed" really only means 50% penetration. 10 years is plenty of time to get to a 50% EV fleet - the infrastructure will roll out incrementally.

Power grids will experience major disruption anyway with new (renewable) generation and storage sites popping up everywhere and a lot of distributed "micro-generation" (eg rooftop solar) and micro-storage (eg home batteries and EV's as grid storage).
As this guy says, look back 100 years to before 'electrification' and imagine what they would have said if we told them about today. He also points out the advance in 10 years back then

I decided to post the vid because it contains superconductive stuff and that could even be the big step we are looking for.

We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

Xwang
Xwang
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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May I ask a question?
Why are you using this thread, which is about current F1 engine formula, to speak about the future of EV vehicles? Don't you think you are a bit off topic here?
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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hollus
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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True that.
I love the discussion but it hijacks the thread.
please continue in a relevant thread
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 11&t=27450
(there are a few) or even on an ad-hoc one.
¡Puxa Esportin!

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Big Tea
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Xwang wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:46 pm
May I ask a question?
Why are you using this thread, which is about current F1 engine formula, to speak about the future of EV vehicles? Don't you think you are a bit off topic here?
Apologies, I think I was the instigator. I do try, but can't seem to follow a simple rule :oops:
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

mzso
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Dr. Acula wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:15 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:43 pm
I had an original idea of it being 'up to speed' well before 2030, now I am doubting it.
Its only 10 years, but it will involve disrupting so much of the existing infrastructure making it more expensive in not only direct cost but things like planning and obtaining sites.

As I said, I hope the optimists are right and I am wrong.
Even 2030 is optimistic. In my opinion there's one mayor issue especially in cities, the electrical grid. You can build thousands of charging points rather quickly, but unfortunately the electricity doesn't come to them by magic. It needs infrastructure to support the demand. Not just the production facilities i.e. powerplants but also transformer stations, power lines and so on. Imagine a parking garage for 200 cars and just 50 EVs charge there with 100kW each...that means 5MW of power. That would normally be enough power for about 800 households. Most existing electrical hardware will not support such peaks in demand in a very limited area.
Obviously pointless superchargers won't be the norm. Rather overnight top-up charging.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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"Big manufacturer to enter F1 in 2023"

This is a Greek car site claiming that none other than VW is ready to enter F1 in 2023! It says that they don't know with which of their brands but it claims that because of Stefano Domenicali taking over at the head of Liberty Media, VW now is ready to enter F1!

Although i don't believe it's true, since i haven't found anyone else on the internet mentioning this thing and they don't even say where they've found this information, has anyone in hear seen or heard anything like this??

Of course I'd be happy to see VW in F1 in 2023 but I don't think any manufacturer (specially VW :lol: ) is so silly to throw so much money since the engine regulations are going to change come 2026!

https://www.caranddriver.gr/eidiseis/ar ... m=facebook
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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I for one have heard/been reading that from time to time at least since from before 2013.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:23 pm
"Big manufacturer to enter F1 in 2023"

This is a Greek car site claiming that none other than VW is ready to enter F1 in 2023! It says that they don't know with which of their brands but it claims that because of Stefano Domenicali taking over at the head of Liberty Media, VW now is ready to enter F1!

Although i don't believe it's true, since i haven't found anyone else on the internet mentioning this thing and they don't even say where they've found this information, has anyone in hear seen or heard anything like this??

Of course I'd be happy to see VW in F1 in 2023 but I don't think any manufacturer (specially VW :lol: ) is so silly to throw so much money since the engine regulations are going to change come 2026!

https://www.caranddriver.gr/eidiseis/ar ... m=facebook
I would like to see VW in F1, but my immediate reaction to seeing this was... Oh! not again.

It seems every year they trot out the same thing, we will be in F1 soon, but nothing happens.

As I said, I would like to see it, but will not be holding my breath.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.