[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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ryaan2904
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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@Zynerji yes you are correct, he still has to really win anything yet but it doesnt change the fact that Currently he's performing better.

hape
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Schippke wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:47 am
My 2 cents on Ferrari's Turkish Grand Prix.

Firstly, I seriously don't think Binotto being there or not would've made the difference to the end result. So I don't know why people (here and elsewhere on social media) are making a big deal out of it.

As for the drivers, Sebastian made a mega start and drove beautifully... keeping Lewis behind for such a long time was amazing to see, considering the car he had at his disposal. As much as his recents performances are below his usual self (be that motivation, the team, the car or a conspiracy of some description), this was Vintage Vettel and it was awesome to see.

In saying that, Charles for me... was even more so impressive. Yes, he didn't make the lighting start Vettel did, and the start of the race wasn't that noticeable... but once he pitted, considering how far back down the field he was, how he caught-up and passed Sebastian was nothing short of incredible; Tremendous pace throughout all things considered. Whilst it was a shame he lost out of a Podium place, the fact he gave it a go to try and stop Perez getting past again was a valiant effort. Had he kept the place, we'd all be singing his praises but consider the state of the conditions on track, the intermediates basically becoming semi-slicks, I'm not going to criticise him. When you compare how he has driven the rest of 2020, he's doing incredibly well.

It was just nice seeing Ferrari capitalising and seemingly making all the right calls (for once!). They made the most of the conditions and brought home their best result of the season. With the last few races, don't think we'll be seeing much in terms of similar positions (those straights at Bahrain are going to be a killer)... but hopefully we can finish the season with a few more double-points finishes and prepare for a stronger 2021.
Spot on.
All even numbered grid positions were a disgrace at the start, Vettel, starting from the uneven position, choose the right path and found himself in 3rd spot before he knew it. Most of the race he had no car in front of him, a huge advantage in the wet.
Leclerc on the other hand found himself in 14th position, did some great overtaking on a wet track, closed a huge gap to Verstappen, Vettel, Perez etc. overtook them all by being fastest on the track for quite some time.
Perez and Vettel just took advantage when he made that small error in the last lap that cost him a few seconds.

Zynerji
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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MachineCo. wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:58 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:50 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:15 am

First of all, Vettel had a good race in Imola as well, when Binotto was present. And before you mention the botched pitstop, do know that botching a pitstop in action is just impossible. You cant 'orchestrate' a bad pitstop. Is it that hard to just accept the fact that the upgrades brought on the car have been helping Seb as well?
Ferrari, even moreso, Binotto doesn't have time for that kind of drama. Would you say the same for all the mistakes and missed opportunities by Seb in 2018 as well as 2019?! When he arguably had the best car and all the support he could ask for.
Charles has proved why he's the better driver enough times, independent to Seb's performances, for Ferrari to hold Seb back. Get over it.
When Charles has a few WDC trophies, then we can talk about whos the better driver...🙄

OK sure. Wonder what Ferrari ever saw in this guy to sign him for the next 5 years? Bet you said the same about Ricciardo?
Well, Ferrari's signings of the last 10 years haven't provided any championships, so I guess there's that.

Charles is a future great. Vettel is a current one. Lewis is the GOAT.

Zynerji
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:48 am
@Zynerji yes you are correct, he still has to really win anything yet but it doesnt change the fact that Currently he's performing better.
Lots of reasons, I'm sure.

Only time will tell if LeClerc is a multi-WDC or just an "Also Ran". He can still turn out to be another Hulk/Perez/Grosjean/Bottas.

e30ernest
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D

Lucky
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:08 pm
I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D
I don’t think Leclerc will ever win a WDC with Ferrari, in a few years he too will be frustrated with the Ferrari politics and suffer the same fate as those before him.

e30ernest
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 am
e30ernest wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:08 pm
I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D
I don’t think Leclerc will ever win a WDC with Ferrari, in a few years he too will be frustrated with the Ferrari politics and suffer the same fate as those before him.
That is probably true. I think the Schumacher era was very special because the combination of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn overcame the internal politics at Ferrari during their early years together while instilling their own culture and values. When that group disbanded the old ways slowly crept back into Ferrari. There has been nothing but a talent drain in that team (their best engineers and designers are now in other teams).

Ferrari likely needs to make changes from the top down. Not necessarily personnel changes, but management procedures, policies and way of thinking.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 am
e30ernest wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:08 pm
I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D
I don’t think Leclerc will ever win a WDC with Ferrari, in a few years he too will be frustrated with the Ferrari politics and suffer the same fate as those before him.
The disturbing thought there is the 'life after Ferrari' spectre. I know recently Kimi and Seb have stayed in F1 but over all it is not a good position for LeClerc to be an EX Ferrari driver.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

LM10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:32 am
Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 am
e30ernest wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:08 pm
I have high hopes for Leclerc. Even at F2, the few races I got to watch had me impressed with Leclerc. Since then, I always saw him as someone at the level of Max or Lewis when they came into F1. He has the raw talent/speed. He just has to add experience and convert that into wins/championships.

I distinctly remember last year that people were criticizing Ferrari for letting go of Kimi in favor of Charles. People were saying he was too green and that Vettel will wipe the floor with him. Didn't turn out that way now. :D
I don’t think Leclerc will ever win a WDC with Ferrari, in a few years he too will be frustrated with the Ferrari politics and suffer the same fate as those before him.
That is probably true. I think the Schumacher era was very special because the combination of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn overcame the internal politics at Ferrari during their early years together while instilling their own culture and values. When that group disbanded the old ways slowly crept back into Ferrari. There has been nothing but a talent drain in that team (their best engineers and designers are now in other teams).

Ferrari likely needs to make changes from the top down. Not necessarily personnel changes, but management procedures, policies and way of thinking.
Way of thinking has changed with Mattia Binotto as TP. And management has also been restructured recently.

Gothrek
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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LM10 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:59 am
e30ernest wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:32 am
Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 am


I don’t think Leclerc will ever win a WDC with Ferrari, in a few years he too will be frustrated with the Ferrari politics and suffer the same fate as those before him.
That is probably true. I think the Schumacher era was very special because the combination of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn overcame the internal politics at Ferrari during their early years together while instilling their own culture and values. When that group disbanded the old ways slowly crept back into Ferrari. There has been nothing but a talent drain in that team (their best engineers and designers are now in other teams).

Ferrari likely needs to make changes from the top down. Not necessarily personnel changes, but management procedures, policies and way of thinking.
Way of thinking has changed with Mattia Binotto as TP. And management has also been restructured recently.
Besides in paper, how?

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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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It’s not easy to change ways of thinking. Responses to events, responses to criticism, responses to failure may change. But mindset is a lot harder to change than just changing those policies
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LM10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:17 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:59 am
e30ernest wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:32 am


That is probably true. I think the Schumacher era was very special because the combination of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn overcame the internal politics at Ferrari during their early years together while instilling their own culture and values. When that group disbanded the old ways slowly crept back into Ferrari. There has been nothing but a talent drain in that team (their best engineers and designers are now in other teams).

Ferrari likely needs to make changes from the top down. Not necessarily personnel changes, but management procedures, policies and way of thinking.
Way of thinking has changed with Mattia Binotto as TP. And management has also been restructured recently.
Besides in paper, how?
Mattia has told numerous time that their intentions are not to let heads roll because things don't work as they should at the moment. He believes in the, in his words, young team and he believes in consistency.
In the past you could be sure of Ferrari firing employees after a bad season and who could work properly in an atmosphere constantly fearing to lose the job?
Look what James Allison brought to Mercedes to name an example. He would have not been fired now.

I don't know what you mean with "besides on paper". The management has been restructured in the summer in order to put people in positions they can perform best and to further stabilize the team.
Positive results should be a good sign of the changes being effective and we actually have seen upgrades on the car which clearly worked in the last couple of months. I don't know how informed you are, but I can tell you that in the last years seeing upgrades work on the Ferrari has been a great rarity.

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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:17 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:59 am
e30ernest wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:32 am


That is probably true. I think the Schumacher era was very special because the combination of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn overcame the internal politics at Ferrari during their early years together while instilling their own culture and values. When that group disbanded the old ways slowly crept back into Ferrari. There has been nothing but a talent drain in that team (their best engineers and designers are now in other teams).

Ferrari likely needs to make changes from the top down. Not necessarily personnel changes, but management procedures, policies and way of thinking.
Way of thinking has changed with Mattia Binotto as TP. And management has also been restructured recently.
Besides in paper, how?
To start with, neither Camilleri, nor Elkann comes in fiddling with Scuderia operations like their predecessors used to do. Neither are they trigger happy to simply fire people. Camilleri has already made a statement that, there have been too many firings and they need stability now.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/camil ... a/4868290/

Most importantly, they are competing against history's best F1 team and that means, they have to patiently build depth in the ranks and instill confidence, which takes time. Good news is, there is a sense of autonomy now for Binotto without too much of pressure from his bosses. It's about time and we should see good times.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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I think if they follow theough, Elkann/Camilleri’s stance is the correct one. But with the pressure of the nation on them, you have to check back after some time. It’s not easy to stick to your line if people are demanding heads roll
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