Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:11 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:06 am
On Chrono GP, they say that the 2021 rules for the floor and diffuser changes would not only affect the aerodynamics but also heat exchange for the engine. According to the them, the floor is so effective in blocking air entering from the sides that a high vacuum type suction created by the diffuser, which apart from aero gains also creates a large suction below the rear wing which helps in heat extraction. Enough heat extraction that all teams would need to innovate their cooling systems due to the 2021 rules.

Also, for the 2021 Ferrari engine, the cooling fluid for the engine will be maintained to whats now, 130° C, but the cooling fluid for the electrical components (battery i guess) will be upgraded to 70°C to give better electrical support. Doesn't mean that Ferrari is not upgrading the ICE part but they are definitely doing something new in their electrical systems.

Sounds very sensible.

Just from experience, typically for powerful industrial motors I would measure 80*C to 85*C armature temperature using IR camera so that 70*C figure sounds very realistic as a target. Basically they are increasing efficiency a bit more, in an easier way, by running the motors cooler.
But isn't it opposite to what mercedes did last year? Merc said that they did some progress with the cooling fluids and they were able to run them hotter. Can you explain this bit a little?

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PlatinumZealot
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Be careful not to confuse engine coolant temperature and electrical coolant temperatures.

For the heat engine the ideal world is to run it hotter, materials and lubricants permitting. The benefit is less energy loss and less cooling surface required. Ideally. So Mercedes has moved towards this, even designing the aero and suspension for hot tracks.
Again, and crucially the design and materials /fuels/ lubricants must permit this higher temperature running. I am not saying there is more waste heat either.

Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty, magnetic fluxes reduce with higher temps. Insulation breaks down etc.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:25 pm
Be careful not to confuse engine coolant temperature and electrical coolant temperatures.

For the heat engine the ideal world is to run it hotter, materials and lubricants permitting. The benefit is less energy loss and less cooling surface required. Ideally. So Mercedes has moved towards this, even designing the aero and suspension for hot tracks.
Again, and crucially the design and materials /fuels/ lubricants must permit this higher temperature running. I am not saying there is more waste heat either.

Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty, magnetic fluxes reduce with higher temps. Insulation breaks down etc.
Cool stuff :D Thanks for the explanation!

FDD
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:25 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:25 pm
Be careful not to confuse engine coolant temperature and electrical coolant temperatures.

For the heat engine the ideal world is to run it hotter, materials and lubricants permitting. The benefit is less energy loss and less cooling surface required. Ideally. So Mercedes has moved towards this, even designing the aero and suspension for hot tracks.
Again, and crucially the design and materials /fuels/ lubricants must permit this higher temperature running. I am not saying there is more waste heat either.

Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty, magnetic fluxes reduce with higher temps. Insulation breaks down etc.
Cool stuff :D Thanks for the explanation!
Here is extreme example for getting max performance from CPU cooling at -160 Celsius. Speed of CPU is overclocked from 3GHz to 8GHz. Start watch the video from 10 min. to see the process of cooling, nitrogen is used I think.
Just like extreme example for PlatinumZealot already wrote about "Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty"

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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FDD wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:46 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:25 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:25 pm
Be careful not to confuse engine coolant temperature and electrical coolant temperatures.

For the heat engine the ideal world is to run it hotter, materials and lubricants permitting. The benefit is less energy loss and less cooling surface required. Ideally. So Mercedes has moved towards this, even designing the aero and suspension for hot tracks.
Again, and crucially the design and materials /fuels/ lubricants must permit this higher temperature running. I am not saying there is more waste heat either.

Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty, magnetic fluxes reduce with higher temps. Insulation breaks down etc.
Cool stuff :D Thanks for the explanation!
Here is extreme example for getting max performance from CPU cooling at -160 Celsius. Speed of CPU is overclocked from 3GHz to 8GHz. Start watch the video from 10 min. to see the process of cooling, nitrogen is used I think.
Just like extreme example for PlatinumZealot already wrote about "Electrical components are the opposite. You want to run them at cool temperature. Not cold, but cool. Hotter temperstures reduces current carrying capicty"
Cool stuff! That chip literally became a superconductor :lol:
Also, anyone noticed how that 'whirring' sound, like that of an electrical whine emitted by the 2018 and 2019 Ferrari engine stopped in 2020?
I really liked that sound. Hope it comes back again in 2021

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godlameroso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That could be down to mic placement.
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PhillipM
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The whirring sound is the cooling fan :lol:

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:43 pm
That could be down to mic placement.
It could be, but why keep the same mic placements in 2018 and 2019 but change it for 2020?

nemanja
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FDD
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nemanja wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:50 am
Actually nothing new in the video and also speculations only :D

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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https://www.mahle-powertrain.com/en/exp ... -ignition/
Soo, the Jet Ignition thing is real. The active version applied to a normal roadcar will increase the BTE to 45% (their aimed figures). It could be that Ferrari has touched down 50% BTE figures. Can't say for sure. Though Mercedes might have reached 60% by now :(

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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:14 am
https://www.mahle-powertrain.com/en/exp ... -ignition/
Soo, the Jet Ignition thing is real. The active version applied to a normal roadcar will increase the BTE to 45% (their aimed figures). It could be that Ferrari has touched down 50% BTE figures. Can't say for sure. Though Mercedes might have reached 60% by now :(
Its been real for quite some time now :mrgreen: ... Mahle video from 2016 ->

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I think you can just about see some individual battery cells there which I found interesting, if that's indeed the battery dangling down there.
Image

Part of its housing is seen here, the purplish piece in the middle. Also, a view on the underside of the intercooler on the left.
Image