Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Stu wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:47 pm
balalev wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:26 pm
flexible T-wing

update: its just broken. wasnt moving at the beginning of the race.

https://preview.redd.it/ixm3posbjfz51.j ... c20740df97
I remember being at Silverstone once, F3 were on the race-card and one of the competitors had a bit of a tangle early on and his air box (and therefore restrictor) was knocked off. He continued to the end, but was disqualified.
He started the race with a legal car, but didn’t finish with one!
F1 seems to operate to different rules, certainly as far as bodywork is concerned!
Removing an air restrictor is always going to be beneficial. Broken bodywork is almost always going to be detrimental.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

NoDivergence
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Stu wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:47 pm
balalev wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:26 pm
flexible T-wing

update: its just broken. wasnt moving at the beginning of the race.

https://preview.redd.it/ixm3posbjfz51.j ... c20740df97
I remember being at Silverstone once, F3 were on the race-card and one of the competitors had a bit of a tangle early on and his air box (and therefore restrictor) was knocked off. He continued to the end, but was disqualified.
He started the race with a legal car, but didn’t finish with one!
F1 seems to operate to different rules, certainly as far as bodywork is concerned!
Was a significant performance advantaged gained? If not, nbd

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:55 am
Blackout wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:31 am
These conditions provide great natural flowviz pics
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ce/563.jpg
Yes indeed. I'm surprised how the air appears to lift upwards in the coke bottle - I guess that's from air coming in laterally across the top of the floor. Or perhaps there's a "bubble" of slower air in front of the diffuser step / rear suspension that causes the air to flow upward in that zone. Slower air would be, relative to the air below the floor, high pressure meaning some downforce.
Older pics
Image

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pierrre
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Blackout wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:55 am
Blackout wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:31 am
These conditions provide great natural flowviz pics
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ce/563.jpg
Yes indeed. I'm surprised how the air appears to lift upwards in the coke bottle - I guess that's from air coming in laterally across the top of the floor. Or perhaps there's a "bubble" of slower air in front of the diffuser step / rear suspension that causes the air to flow upward in that zone. Slower air would be, relative to the air below the floor, high pressure meaning some downforce.
Older pics
https://i.imgur.com/rPuCdaU.jpg
one possibility
Image

and if this is the case, it would certainly help if the car has a longer chassis than a shorter one, 'if'
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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes W11

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What's the difference in actual chassis length? What is the actual difference in rake angle? From a chassis design standpoint, you have a minimum COG, so if you tilt the engine in the chassis you can play with that COG. Rake angle is just plank rake, it isn't necessarily chassis rake. Granted the floor itself has to follow the plank, but what about the stuff above the floor, does that need to follow the plank?

If your car has less rake, if you want more rake you have to redesign the front end to accommodate that, likewise, if you plan to run more rake, the rest of the car has to be modified to facilitate that. Mercedes has spent all of its development tokens at the front of the car. Perhaps they're planning to run more rake next season? Although they're already running rake, so it could be to allow them to run even less rake.

Other teams may not be able to do that, or not willing to do that. Mercedes can it has a nice advantage, I just hope it pans out because until now Mercedes has had a development advantage which has hidden their missteps, however each misstep allows others to get closer. If they make one from here to next season and others claw back ground they won't be able to react in time.
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e30ernest
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Some interesting photos of the Merc's airflow (other cars too) from the Turkish GP "bitumen flowviz":



Interesting how they used the Halo to shape airflow above the sidepods.

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pierrre
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Re: Mercedes W11

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e30ernest wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:52 am
Some interesting photos of the Merc's airflow (other cars too) from the Turkish GP "bitumen flowviz":



Interesting how they used the Halo to shape airflow above the sidepods.
seen it, check out the one with the alfa romeo, look at the inner rear wheel just under the diffuser, water can be seen going upwards from the ground. ive been looking for a picture of it. don't know how far forward it is or behind
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pierrre
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Re: Mercedes W11

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:19 pm
What's the difference in actual chassis length? What is the actual difference in rake angle? From a chassis design standpoint, you have a minimum COG, so if you tilt the engine in the chassis you can play with that COG. Rake angle is just plank rake, it isn't necessarily chassis rake. Granted the floor itself has to follow the plank, but what about the stuff above the floor, does that need to follow the plank?

If your car has less rake, if you want more rake you have to redesign the front end to accommodate that, likewise, if you plan to run more rake, the rest of the car has to be modified to facilitate that. Mercedes has spent all of its development tokens at the front of the car. Perhaps they're planning to run more rake next season? Although they're already running rake, so it could be to allow them to run even less rake.

Other teams may not be able to do that, or not willing to do that. Mercedes can it has a nice advantage, I just hope it pans out because until now Mercedes has had a development advantage which has hidden their missteps, however each misstep allows others to get closer. If they make one from here to next season and others claw back ground they won't be able to react in time.
if we look at longer chassis away from rake and observe the upper body aerodynamics, the longer chassis can also benefit. i remember reading or watching a video, cant remember, where an australia ex-bmw f1 aerodynamicist said that they always try and bring down as much airflow towards all the aero critical areas, sort of like to boost them

with a longer car, the elements to influence this would be further upstream, giving more time and space for the airflow to go downwards and also whatever vortex they are running along the car to work around its aero plan, they could stretch it to work with even more area
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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pierrre wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:24 am
if we look at longer chassis away from rake and observe the upper body aerodynamics, the longer chassis can also benefit. i remember reading or watching a video, cant remember, where an australia ex-bmw f1 aerodynamicist said that they always try and bring down as much airflow towards all the aero critical areas, sort of like to boost them

with a longer car, the elements to influence this would be further upstream, giving more time and space for the airflow to go downwards and also whatever vortex they are running along the car to work around its aero plan, they could stretch it to work with even more area
Willem Toet.

Yes, the aero tries to bring "clean" air from above the car with as much of the "dirty" air being pushed out sideways as possible. The bargeboards are extremely important on this process.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Image

Image

Image

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Image
Motorsport.com wrote:Mercedes added some Styrofoam to the outboard end of the upper wishbone during Free Practice as it evaluated the 2021-specification tyres. The upper wishbone is raised by means of an upright extension, a solution that they’ve used for a number of years, but it does mean that at the joint it does run particularly close to the tyres’ sidewall. Given that the 2021 tyre has a slightly different shape to it the Styrofoam not only acts as a buffer, it also serves as a guide to the team if any of the surface is eroded.
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zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Morteza wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:56 pm
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -w11-1.jpg
Motorsport.com wrote:Mercedes added some Styrofoam to the outboard end of the upper wishbone during Free Practice as it evaluated the 2021-specification tyres. The upper wishbone is raised by means of an upright extension, a solution that they’ve used for a number of years, but it does mean that at the joint it does run particularly close to the tyres’ sidewall. Given that the 2021 tyre has a slightly different shape to it the Styrofoam not only acts as a buffer, it also serves as a guide to the team if any of the surface is eroded.
Great photo of the car, to boot.

I'll add one more, because the details are lovely under the lights.

Image

j2004p
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Amazing video, if only for the way that the rotating smoke from the lock up gives a decent visualization of the interaction of the tyre and front wing.


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Mark4211
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Hamilton's brake warming preset is set to use 92.0% (bias towards front) for front brake warming in this particular run

Annotated Wheel Adjustments: Pole Position Lap, Lewis Hamilton - Bahrain 2020

https://streamable.com/wglyi9

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humble sabot
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Re: Mercedes W11

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I'm well aware, but generally it isn't as visually obvious. This combination of track and setup led to a very very visible difference in wear patterns, far far more than evident in any photos from other race meetings.
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:41 am
humble sabot wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:32 am
Biggest surprise here is the difference in wear between left and right. Particularly in the front.
wogx wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:25 pm
https://i.imgur.com/boRPCS5.jpg
All circuits will tend to wear one side more than the other as they have more left or right corners - Turkey has more left handers than right handers I think. T8, being a long left hander, will especially wear the right hand tyres more than the left.
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