Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Keen eyes, I failed to spot that!
nah pop no style

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Mattchu
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:17 pm
''How does it work... Must be an awkward one'' It has been part of the customer engine supply from well before the advent of the present power unit. I remember an engine supplier personal assigned to one team ordered not to fire-up a particular customer team engine/s because of unpaid instalments to the engine supplier before practice started at Silverstone. Also remember mercedes engine raced by mclaren having to be returned to supplier after each race and being delivered back at each race before practice.
You conveniently left out the "under the cost cap" bit! As asked, I wonder if the monies come out of the McLaren/Aston/Williams budgets for the Engine guys in full or is it some sort of split. Having engines in more cars [if it`s the former] is/will surely be beneficial when the cost cap hits...

bosyber
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mattchu wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:02 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:17 pm
''How does it work... Must be an awkward one'' It has been part of the customer engine supply from well before the advent of the present power unit. I remember an engine supplier personal assigned to one team ordered not to fire-up a particular customer team engine/s because of unpaid instalments to the engine supplier before practice started at Silverstone. Also remember mercedes engine raced by mclaren having to be returned to supplier after each race and being delivered back at each race before practice.
You conveniently left out the "under the cost cap" bit! As asked, I wonder if the monies come out of the McLaren/Aston/Williams budgets for the Engine guys in full or is it some sort of split. Having engines in more cars [if it`s the former] is/will surely be beneficial when the cost cap hits...
Those guys come with the engine supply, ie. part of the service (different thing: so, just like with increasing amount of our stuff, we only 'own' it as long as we pay!) McLaren pays for.

Now, PU's have a maximum cost that the suppliers can ask, but those suppliers are not held to cost cap, it's only the competitors, ie. the teams that pay FIA entry fee, that are under a cost cap. That's why the FIA separately decided on that PU freeze from 2022 onward, to cut costs of further PU development (as they too feel the diminishing returns, and 2020's economic repercussions etc.).

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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bosyber wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:12 pm
Mattchu wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:02 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:17 pm
''How does it work... Must be an awkward one'' It has been part of the customer engine supply from well before the advent of the present power unit. I remember an engine supplier personal assigned to one team ordered not to fire-up a particular customer team engine/s because of unpaid instalments to the engine supplier before practice started at Silverstone. Also remember mercedes engine raced by mclaren having to be returned to supplier after each race and being delivered back at each race before practice.
You conveniently left out the "under the cost cap" bit! As asked, I wonder if the monies come out of the McLaren/Aston/Williams budgets for the Engine guys in full or is it some sort of split. Having engines in more cars [if it`s the former] is/will surely be beneficial when the cost cap hits...
Those guys come with the engine supply, ie. part of the service (different thing: so, just like with increasing amount of our stuff, we only 'own' it as long as we pay!) McLaren pays for.

Now, PU's have a maximum cost that the suppliers can ask, but those suppliers are not held to cost cap, it's only the competitors, ie. the teams that pay FIA entry fee, that are under a cost cap. That's why the FIA separately decided on that PU freeze from 2022 onward, to cut costs of further PU development (as they too feel the diminishing returns, and 2020's economic repercussions etc.).
So you are saying that the charge of X million a year for engines, includes the engines, the crew to run the engines while in the car, and the tech's back in HPP who produce, assemble, recondition and service the engine for the duration of the contract? I also have to assume it includes the training and retraining plus transport and accommodation then?

Far more complex than I ever imagined.
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saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Not complex at all. The supply comes as a package. While some says ‘'you only owns it while you pay’’ I say, the customer never really owns it, he only owns its allocation for the duration of its calculated safe life-span by the manufacturer, in actual fact, the customer cannot even ‘touch-it’ technically. Not even start-it.

velizare
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Thunder wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:31 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:27 pm
HPP engineers working at McL now appear to be wearing customer team wear.
5th guy left to right is Lewis's ex PU engineer who was replaced by Magda. I think he's now the HPP engineer in charge of McL PUs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuXsF0qXUAM ... name=large
The Mercedes Engineers are the ones with the Meredes Logo on their Outfits. Right shoulder above the Dell Logo.
i doubt it. more of the half of them has the mercedes logo on the right shoulder. thats too many.

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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velizare wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm
Thunder wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:31 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:27 pm
HPP engineers working at McL now appear to be wearing customer team wear.
5th guy left to right is Lewis's ex PU engineer who was replaced by Magda. I think he's now the HPP engineer in charge of McL PUs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuXsF0qXUAM ... name=large
The Mercedes Engineers are the ones with the Meredes Logo on their Outfits. Right shoulder above the Dell Logo.
i doubt it. more of the half of them has the mercedes logo on the right shoulder. thats too many.
I think Thunder is right, the image is from a McL tweet welcoming Merc engineers so it makes sense for most of them to be HPP employees.
nah pop no style

velizare
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:15 pm
velizare wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm
Thunder wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:31 pm


The Mercedes Engineers are the ones with the Meredes Logo on their Outfits. Right shoulder above the Dell Logo.
i doubt it. more of the half of them has the mercedes logo on the right shoulder. thats too many.
I think Thunder is right, the image is from a McL tweet welcoming Merc engineers so it makes sense for most of them to be HPP employees.
i take what you and Thunder are both saying, just wondering about the high number of people to be delegated from the engine supplier side. are they all field engineers, who traveling with the twam and supporting them from the trackside on the weekends, or also the personel included who lends remote support for i stance with monitoring?

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Thunder
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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velizare wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:55 am
i take what you and Thunder are both saying, just wondering about the high number of people to be delegated from the engine supplier side. are they all field engineers, who traveling with the twam and supporting them from the trackside on the weekends, or also the personel included who lends remote support for i stance with monitoring?
If you take into account how many People are involved in even firing these PU's up i don't think thats too many Engineers. Mind you they have 2 Cars to monitor, set up and potentially troubleshoot.
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bosyber
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yeah exactly Thunder, to the customer, the PU might not be exactly a black box, but it's close. The PU manufacturer has engineers that deal with it - they are the ones getting the telemetry from it, even though they communicate about what's going on in case of need to optimize running, or when a problem is seen, they also are the ones that start it and manage it. Two PU per team, it doesn't seem too many people really.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Did they show this before?
Image

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Mudflap
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Not this one exactly but they showed the hypercar version which is based on this exact spec.
HGE is a 2015 engine serial number so it's quite old now. It appears to be the single wastegate version - recent ones have double wastegates as seen in the video at 1:30 (wastegate outlets have blanking plates with a link bar, the actual wastegate actuators are covered with gold foil).

The inlet vane actuation mechanism is clearly visible.
nah pop no style

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wouldn't the top blanking plate be the external wastegate/actuator, and the two capped tubes the wastegate pipe flanges?

Very top is for the valve itself, and the forward one is the actuator? I could be wrong.

Or do you mean double wastegates like in this picture?

Image
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