Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
RZS10
180
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Just a general question: Are teams allowed to share driver performance related data?

Red Bull (as in Helmut Marko) always said that they have all the data of all their drivers available which allows them to compare them etc - this would imply that it's not forbidden for RBR to have access to that particular data of AT (or formerly STR).

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
521
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Yes.

Teams also collect data on rival drivers somehow. I wish I knew how they do it, but they do.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
Online Stress Therapy. #77 is mediocre. W12 is the fastest car. Repeat x 1,000

Jolle
Jolle
223
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:10 pm
Yes.

Teams also collect data on rival drivers somehow. I wish I knew how they do it, but they do.
By the GPS that they get from the FIA. I also expect that for drivers like Russell and Gio their contracts state that their data is shared with their big teams.

User avatar
Phil
433
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

MKlaus wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:20 am
it has become so predictable. those who like bottas, tries to find a way to make a point that russell is not good. they are so afraid to see bottas lose that seat.
this has been the worst start to a season for bottas of the 5 seasons he is with the team. even norris is ahead of him on points. he is becoming a sitting duck for lewis. there isn't even a competition. he is driving the best car and still couldn't shake off max in the first stint and became a casualty for an undercut (sort of). once lewis overtook, he disappeared. that's the kind of pace that car has. ultimately, he ended up 3rd in no man's land. luckily for him, there is another dumb driver in the other red bull.
I don't particularly like Bottas, but he is doing the job and continuing to do it. Sure, he stuffed the race yesterday (he should have brought in 2nd), but to be fair, the pit stop was slow and that lost him the position (not his fault). I do blame him for just sticking on the racing line and doing absolutely nothing to make the pass by Max any more difficult.

It was a pity for his sensor problem that took him out of contention of challenging Max. I would have loved to see if he could have pulled it off, even if I doubt he could have.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
426
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

MKlaus wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:20 am
ringo wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:56 am
shortened for lenght of quotes
it has become so predictable. those who like bottas, tries to find a way to make a point that russell is not good. they are so afraid to see bottas lose that seat.
this has been the worst start to a season for bottas of the 5 seasons he is with the team. even norris is ahead of him on points. there isn't even a competition. he is driving the best car and still couldn't shake off max in the first stint and became a casualty for an undercut (sort of). once lewis overtook, he disappeared. that's the kind of pace that car has. ultimately, he ended up 3rd in no man's land.
russell is driving a bad race car, which has been pointed by many people here. it's a difficult car with peaky downforce (as the team is trying something different) and almost impossible to follow a car ahead. you say latifi is improving? he was overtaken by Mick in a much slower car. besides, a young driver learns from mistakes and if that was a yard stick to measure, none of the champion drivers should have ever got a chance to drive for top teams.
i don't even understand why people try sounding logical for the sake of bottas. it's bonkers to be measuring russell in a bad car, ignoring what he did in a good car a few months back.
this.

Bottas is a mess. he should have flown away into the distance. Both Lewis AND Max had a lousy weekend, especially on saturday. Bottas started off well the entire GP weekend ever since FP1. He should have easily won this GP, faded into the distance from the start.

Ultimately Lewis had the better car than Max, AND Max made a mistake which cost him dearly. Still, DRS couldn't help him gain back that position and Lewis just catapulted away so to speak. Max in all fairness should have finished P3, but Bottas' total lack of talent resulted in Max making P2. I think it would have been questionable whether Max could have won the GP even if he did not make a mistake. Lewis imho more likely was simply waiting for Max to pass Bottas - which he would have anyway - whilst keeping a safe distance behind him and not run into eachother due to whatever reason. Bottas had a completely new car anyway after last weekend, he had all the best cards on the table.
If max didn't make that error, Lewis would have simply demanded for the team to let Bottas step aside so no time would be lost for beating Max P1, and i'm sure Bottas had no choice to obey anyway.

If we compare that to Russell, he made Q2 and QUALIFIED a WILLIAMS in P11.
He then managed to keep that position untill the safety car restart when he became subject to both cars with better grip, slipstream and eventually DRS. Dont forget IMOLA,
he was OVERTAKING BOTTAS in a MERC.
A frigging MERC.

Bottas is done and dusted.
Russell immediately shined last season when taking hamilton's seat.
he shined in a way that Bottas NEVER ever did, driving like it was the championship decider for him.
No matter how much was thrown at him. Russell is WDC material. Bottas is NOT. not even in a WDC capable car.

The only 'sad' thing that happened was the collision between George and Valterri. George didn't do any favours there.
No matter how you put it, THAT was a similar clash like between Rosberg and Hamilton in the past. Toto still has hammeroids and headache from that. It's exactly THAT which they do NOT want to see.

And let's be fair here, it's LIKELY Hamilton stays with Merc, but it always could end up being Russell-Bottas if Merc has no alternatives.

One thing DOES rule in favour of Bottas: he NEVER ever has or probably will put himself and the team in the sitation that Rosberg/Hamilton ended up in. And I don't think Bottas would have went for that Imola move in the Williams.

That said, Russell is like a shark that'll go for it. Bottas is like the slow lamentine.

The only problem Russell faces: does it benefit Mercedes to sign him if Hamilton's already there?
If the rules wouldn't change for 2022, i think Mercedes can take the risk of keeping Bottas, since the 2nd RBR driver isn't sufficiently threatening the WCC yet.

Another thing would be this:

Would Mercedes go with Russell or Verstappen for 2022?
Taking Verstappen aboard completely crushes RedBull.

It would force a lot of hands in the paddock.

Tactically, they then have both Mclaren's Norris and Ricciardo for the top 5, and to keep RBR and Ferrari away.
Both Aston Martins in the mix to mess about with Ferrari and RBR.
And two superstars in their mothership team with Hamilton and Verstappen. IF their 2022 car is less dominant than now, their talent will atleast correct a good amount of it.
RBR will be powerless. Perez is good, but they need supertalent. Tsunoda is way too inexperienced and too much of a ballistic missile. Gasly is good, like perez, but not supertalent. Albon has proven unworthy.

The only reasonable chance for RBR to replace max with would be:
Russell, Ricciardo, Norris. I don't think any of them would have any real interest though.

Mercedes should give Russell a good car 'to keep him aboard the family' but if Hamilton stays, there is little Russell can do to find himself in a good spot. They might replace Norris with Russell @ Mclaren, but then again, Norris is doing absolutely great so more likely to replace Ricciardo, but i think his contract is sorted.

The only wildcard could be Alonso. There is the final shocker possibility that, with Honda officially OUT of F1 in 2022, that Alonso gets a RedBull seat IF verstappen is gone. Alonso has the talent, and a RBR seat will certainly be better than Alpine.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
426
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

So here is a wild list.

2022:

Mercedes: Hamilton & Verstappen
Mclaren: Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin: Vettel & Stroll
Williams : Nissany & Latifi
RedBull : Alonso & Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda & Albon
Alpine : Gasly & Ocon
Ferrari: Sainz & LeClerc
Alfa Romeo : Schumacher & Ilott
Haas : Mazepin & Schwarzmann + Colton Herta as a reserve driver

This would be a very interesting lineup imho. Unlikely to happen in the end but i'd really enjoy it. Obviously Bottas, Raikkonen and Giovanazzi out.

For 2023, we might see (if he proves to be any good) Schumacher @ Ferrari alongside either Sainz or LeClerc,
Then see Schwarzmann to Alfa Romeo alongside Ilott and Colton Herta taking the second Haas seat. Or Fittipaldi, who knows.

If Tsunoda delivers, then there might be a swap between Perez and him. More likely to see Perez to Alpine or retire though. And a newcomer @ Alpha Tauri.

However, i think it's far more likely to see Russell alongside Hamilton. Perez is likely to stay another season i reckon.
Also think Alonso needs to step up his game if he ever wants to find himself in a WDC capable car. Right now, i can't see Alonso better than Perez, despite he should be.
If Alonso regularly find himself beating Ocon, then there is a chance he replaces Perez and Perez goes to Alpine, or to Alpha Tauri and Gasly alongside Ocon.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

MKlaus
MKlaus
24
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:22 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:30 pm
So here is a wild list.

2022:

Mercedes: Hamilton & Verstappen
Mclaren: Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin: Vettel & Stroll
Williams : Nissany & Latifi
RedBull : Alonso & Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda & Albon
Alpine : Gasly & Ocon
Ferrari: Sainz & LeClerc
Alfa Romeo : Schumacher & Ilott
Haas : Mazepin & Schwarzmann + Colton Herta as a reserve driver

This would be a very interesting lineup imho. Unlikely to happen in the end but i'd really enjoy it. Obviously Bottas, Raikkonen and Giovanazzi out.

For 2023, we might see (if he proves to be any good) Schumacher @ Ferrari alongside either Sainz or LeClerc,
Then see Schwarzmann to Alfa Romeo alongside Ilott and Colton Herta taking the second Haas seat. Or Fittipaldi, who knows.

If Tsunoda delivers, then there might be a swap between Perez and him. More likely to see Perez to Alpine or retire though. And a newcomer @ Alpha Tauri.

However, i think it's far more likely to see Russell alongside Hamilton. Perez is likely to stay another season i reckon.
Also think Alonso needs to step up his game if he ever wants to find himself in a WDC capable car. Right now, i can't see Alonso better than Perez, despite he should be.
If Alonso regularly find himself beating Ocon, then there is a chance he replaces Perez and Perez goes to Alpine, or to Alpha Tauri and Gasly alongside Ocon.
based on this list, why would redbull take alonso if russell becomes available? :) there is no reason for russell to sit on sidelines, waiting for merc. if russell breaks free, marko would be waiting outside mercedes factory to sign him.

Peter1919
Peter1919
11
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:15 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:30 pm
So here is a wild list.

2022:

Mercedes: Hamilton & Verstappen
Mclaren: Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin: Vettel & Stroll
Williams : Nissany & Latifi
RedBull : Alonso & Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda & Albon
Alpine : Gasly & Ocon
Ferrari: Sainz & LeClerc
Alfa Romeo : Schumacher & Ilott
Haas : Mazepin & Schwarzmann + Colton Herta as a reserve driver

This would be a very interesting lineup imho. Unlikely to happen in the end but i'd really enjoy it. Obviously Bottas, Raikkonen and Giovanazzi out.
You seem to have missed out Russell entirely and there is no way he won't have a seat next season, most likely replacing Bottas at Merc.

User avatar
Pyrone89
4
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Every F1 fan's dream:

Hamilton and Verstappen at Mercedes. Finally completely same cars, FIGHT!

Not going to happen though unfortunately in these 'harmony and lets alls sing hallelujah together' team cultures. Miss the days of Prost vs Senna.
It does not matter so much if 1 team completely dominates if the 2 best drivers are on that team, as I believe most people care about the WDC way more than the WCC anyway.

User avatar
ringo
236
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Bottas is safe. As long as Russel continues to botch his races up Bottas is safe.
Russel seems more promise than delivery these days.
Norris is the best young driver now. He is driving really well.
Russel i believe needs to score a point in the Williams, just as how Leclerc was very convincing in the Sauber in his rookie year.

As for Max. He is in the fastest car now. He will be a fool to leave Redbull. Portugal was supposed to be a very strong track for Mercedes, yet.. Redbull was faster on one tyre while merc did better on another. Basically equal on what should have been Mercs weekend. I can imagine how well the remaining tracks will suit the RB16B.
For Sure!!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
704
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:30 pm
So here is a wild list.

2022:

Mercedes: Hamilton & Verstappen
Mclaren: Norris & Ricciardo
Aston Martin: Vettel & Stroll
Williams : Nissany & Latifi
RedBull : Alonso & Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda & Albon
Alpine : Gasly & Ocon
Ferrari: Sainz & LeClerc
Alfa Romeo : Schumacher & Ilott
Haas : Mazepin & Schwarzmann + Colton Herta as a reserve driver
Why would Max go to Mercedes now? Red Bull are coming good and, with the rule change next year, has every chance of being the best car on the grid. Also, at Red Bull he is the "chosen one" with the team working around him. So long as he keeps performing, that won't change and he'll be treated preferentially against his team mate. Going to Mercedes means a season learning the team, trying to put his stamp on things, etc., all while trying to beat the one guy in the paddock that is at Max's level. Big risk, that.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

tangodjango
tangodjango
47
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:38 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

ringo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:18 am
Bottas is safe. As long as Russel continues to botch his races up Bottas is safe.
Russel seems more promise than delivery these days.
Norris is the best young driver now. He is driving really well.
Russel i believe needs to score a point in the Williams, just as how Leclerc was very convincing in the Sauber in his rookie year.

As for Max. He is in the fastest car now. He will be a fool to leave Redbull. Portugal was supposed to be a very strong track for Mercedes, yet.. Redbull was faster on one tyre while merc did better on another. Basically equal on what should have been Mercs weekend. I can imagine how well the remaining tracks will suit the RB16B.
Sort of agree. Just confirms that Hamilton is still the outright fastest driver in the paddock, Max is close behind though! Red Bull need to develop till they are 3-4 tenths ahead though otherwise Hamilton in a slower car will beat Max with a faster car.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

User avatar
Tizz
4
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:15 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

tangodjango wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am
ringo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:18 am
Bottas is safe. As long as Russel continues to botch his races up Bottas is safe.
Russel seems more promise than delivery these days.
Norris is the best young driver now. He is driving really well.
Russel i believe needs to score a point in the Williams, just as how Leclerc was very convincing in the Sauber in his rookie year.

As for Max. He is in the fastest car now. He will be a fool to leave Redbull. Portugal was supposed to be a very strong track for Mercedes, yet.. Redbull was faster on one tyre while merc did better on another. Basically equal on what should have been Mercs weekend. I can imagine how well the remaining tracks will suit the RB16B.
Sort of agree. Just confirms that Hamilton is still the outright fastest driver in the paddock, Max is close behind though! Red Bull need to develop till they are 3-4 tenths ahead though otherwise Hamilton in a slower car will beat Max with a faster car.
In dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad and the Daily Mail it is claimed that a probable replacement of Bottas is more than just a rumour. I don't know, we'll see.

User avatar
El Scorchio
43
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Tizz wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
tangodjango wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am
ringo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:18 am
Bottas is safe. As long as Russel continues to botch his races up Bottas is safe.
Russel seems more promise than delivery these days.
Norris is the best young driver now. He is driving really well.
Russel i believe needs to score a point in the Williams, just as how Leclerc was very convincing in the Sauber in his rookie year.

As for Max. He is in the fastest car now. He will be a fool to leave Redbull. Portugal was supposed to be a very strong track for Mercedes, yet.. Redbull was faster on one tyre while merc did better on another. Basically equal on what should have been Mercs weekend. I can imagine how well the remaining tracks will suit the RB16B.
Sort of agree. Just confirms that Hamilton is still the outright fastest driver in the paddock, Max is close behind though! Red Bull need to develop till they are 3-4 tenths ahead though otherwise Hamilton in a slower car will beat Max with a faster car.
In dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad and the Daily Mail it is claimed that a probable replacement of Bottas is more than just a rumour. I don't know, we'll see.
If it's from the Daily Mail you can pretty much disregard it as idle gossip.

User avatar
214270
11
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:49 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:35 am
Tizz wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
tangodjango wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:09 am

Sort of agree. Just confirms that Hamilton is still the outright fastest driver in the paddock, Max is close behind though! Red Bull need to develop till they are 3-4 tenths ahead though otherwise Hamilton in a slower car will beat Max with a faster car.
In dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad and the Daily Mail it is claimed that a probable replacement of Bottas is more than just a rumour. I don't know, we'll see.
If it's from the Daily Mail you can pretty much disregard it as idle gossip.
Lol you guessed right, a BS Daily Mail story.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/george-ru ... s-rumours/
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.