2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:03 pm
Juzh wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:14 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:53 pm


Last year Hamilton had a .3 second advantage over Verstappen in Barcelona. The gap was closer there than it was in Portimao. If the trend continues and RBR has gained ~.4 on Mercedes it should put them slightly ahead. In any case, overtaking in Barcelona is hard and track position will be important, so qualifying will be key.

Last year Verstappen could sort of hang with Hamilton in the race but Verstappen chewed up his tires quicker than Hamilton. Even if Mercedes is kinder on its tires, Verstappen should have the edge in pace. Bahrain turns 5 6 and 7 showed us that the RBR can carry more speed in the corners, and that trend has not changed in Imola or Portimao.

There are more of those types of corners in Barcelona, and with the reprofiled turn 10, it's less of a sharp hair pin, and more a speed carrying corner.

Last year it was a two stop race, I'm guessing it may be a one stopper this year, or an aggressive two stopper.
Mercedes had so much advantage in barcelona last year they didn't even use strat 2 for Q3 and still pulled 0.8s lead in quali. I know this year will be closer but such blind confidence you're exhibiting is foolish, sorry.
.7, when RBR still had their early season instability, and thus couldn't produce a representative qualifying lap. Look at the race pace, if Mercedes had such a huge advantage why couldn't Bottas keep up with or overtake Verstappen? Speaking of foolish confidence.
The comparison is always with Hamilton though, since Bottas obviously seldom maximizes the car's potential, as Albon didn't with the RB16 and Perez doesn't with the RB16B. Last year at Barcelona, Hamilton controlled the race from start to finish, and eventually finished some 24 seconds ahead of Verstappen. If that isn't a huge advantage, I don't know what is.

That of course doesn't mean it will be the same this year. It's gonna be super close, with a slight advantage for Red Bull on paper at the moment. But what should worry Red Bull is that they brought a pretty big update package to Portimao and still were beaten by Merc, who are yet to introduce their first big package... which could well come this weekend.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 10:03 pm
Juzh wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:14 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:53 pm


Last year Hamilton had a .3 second advantage over Verstappen in Barcelona. The gap was closer there than it was in Portimao. If the trend continues and RBR has gained ~.4 on Mercedes it should put them slightly ahead. In any case, overtaking in Barcelona is hard and track position will be important, so qualifying will be key.

Last year Verstappen could sort of hang with Hamilton in the race but Verstappen chewed up his tires quicker than Hamilton. Even if Mercedes is kinder on its tires, Verstappen should have the edge in pace. Bahrain turns 5 6 and 7 showed us that the RBR can carry more speed in the corners, and that trend has not changed in Imola or Portimao.

There are more of those types of corners in Barcelona, and with the reprofiled turn 10, it's less of a sharp hair pin, and more a speed carrying corner.

Last year it was a two stop race, I'm guessing it may be a one stopper this year, or an aggressive two stopper.
Mercedes had so much advantage in barcelona last year they didn't even use strat 2 for Q3 and still pulled 0.8s lead in quali. I know this year will be closer but such blind confidence you're exhibiting is foolish, sorry.
.7, when RBR still had their early season instability, and thus couldn't produce a representative qualifying lap. Look at the race pace, if Mercedes had such a huge advantage why couldn't Bottas keep up with or overtake Verstappen? Speaking of foolish confidence.
Verstappen finished 24s behind Hamilton. Bottas dropped places at the start, which sealed his fate in the race. He stopped for Softs on lap 49, which didn't work well, whereas Hamilton's final stop was for Mediums. Bottas actually pitted for Mediums near the end to take the fastest lap.

Every race has been close this year, and I don't expect anything to change for Barcelona. Barcelona has always been one of Merc's most dominant tracks in the hybrid era, and S3 will suit the W12. That will be the critical sector this weekend, IMO.

RBR will perform much better in Barcelona this year by virtue of both the improved PU and the better balance. That's for certain.

Merc were gaining about 0.3s over RBR in the slow corners in Portimao, while losing only about 0.1s in the faster corners. Merc were much further behind in Bahrain. The teams have been virtually deadlocked in medium-speed cornering performance.

Perez made a 1-stop work last year, but I reckon it will be a 2-stopper again this year, which actually opens up strategy in the race.

rogazilla
rogazilla
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:25 pm

Verstappen finished 24s behind Hamilton. ...
Max pitted just after Bottas to try for fastest lap.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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rogazilla wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:25 pm

Verstappen finished 24s behind Hamilton. ...
Max pitted just after Bottas to try for fastest lap.
I don't see that reflected in the pit stop chart.

Image

rogazilla
rogazilla
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:52 am
rogazilla wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:25 pm

Verstappen finished 24s behind Hamilton. ...
Max pitted just after Bottas to try for fastest lap.
I don't see that reflected in the pit stop chart.

https://preview.redd.it/5m7709e1jgh51.j ... a4c2e46122
Apology. My misunderstanding. My comment was for this past weekend.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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rogazilla wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:39 am
zibby43 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:52 am
rogazilla wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 am


Max pitted just after Bottas to try for fastest lap.
I don't see that reflected in the pit stop chart.

https://preview.redd.it/5m7709e1jgh51.j ... a4c2e46122
Apology. My misunderstanding. My comment was for this past weekend.
No apologies necessary. That makes sense. :D

RBR out-strategized Merc on the timing of that stop this past weekend. Attention to detail is just so critical this year.

Bill
Bill
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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We need large sample of data before we make any conclusions about pu performance. In Bahrain were top speeds reach in access of 330 the Honda perform well without clipping the merc on the other hand had clipping problems. Portimao is not really a power circuit top speed for top team is around 315. Low grip and lack of traction seemed to be a problem for Rbr at that particular track

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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This may explain why Max and Sergio felt they had less power on the straight than Mercedes.

"The car was strong on Saturday and that is a very positive development. I found it difficult to estimate Sunday, but I think both teams are on the same level. First and third place and the point for the fastest lap should be cherished" Wolff reports to Sky Sports.

Max Verstappen was in the DRS of Valtteri Bottas for a lap, but could not pass him. Wolff explains why this came about: "We opted for a set-up with slightly less downforce and more top speed.
That worked out well on Sunday because we had good speed on the straights."
The different rear wing approach that helped Hamilton win

Mercedes has two different rear wing set-ups available to its drivers and we will often see them trying out both during the free practice sessions to establish which one offers them the performance level they're after at that specific track.

The changes might not seem drastic from the outside, but they do offer up subtle differences that allow them to run different downforce levels, whilst offsetting this against the drag penalty and the DRS effect.

It's unclear if Mercedes actively opted to split its drivers, given the threat posed by Verstappen, or whether it was a conscious set-up decision by each.

But Hamilton's set-up on the rear wing arrangement, with two pillars, had significantly less wing than the rear wing installed on Bottas' car, which would potentially give the Brit a straightline speed boost but make life a little more difficult in the corners.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... n/6502259/
Last edited by Wouter on Tue May 04, 2021 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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_cerber1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Robert Doornbos believes that Honda has reduced the power of its engines in Portimao, and therefore they were inferior in speed on the straight lines.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think it's more aero and traction related than PU performance. But it's easy and sells more talking about PU power :roll:

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_cerber1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:25 pm
I think it's more aero and traction related than PU performance. But it's easy and sells more talking about PU power :roll:
Doornbos: “I followed the situation closely, and I noticed that in Portugal, Honda engines dropped their maximum revs,” says Doornbos. - On straight lines Japanese motors lacked power. All of this indicates that Honda has decided to reduce power, but it is not yet known why this decision was made. ”
Last edited by _cerber1 on Tue May 04, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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well. Bottas had an exhaust sensor issue and lost 3.5 seconds or so in like 2 3 laps until they found the cause and switched the sensor off. PU power is so important. who knows what causes what.
AT was less competitive also. I do agree that it is not impossible Honda was slightly conservative this weekend.

in fact, would that be a trick, have a sensor restrict your power and sometimes switch that sensor off (qualy, overtake etc.) multiple drivers have been on radio asking for full power this year. I don't think drivers are unaware you have to race in one power mode this year.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

seense
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Conservative again? That's the conclusion after lots of weekends so far. :? So Honda still afraid to run into PU problems?

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I still think the RB16 is going to be very fast in Barcelona. With some data to optimize their upgrades as well, which were shown to work as intended.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Bill wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:42 am
We need large sample of data before we make any conclusions about pu performance. In Bahrain were top speeds reach in access of 330 the Honda perform well without clipping the merc on the other hand had clipping problems. Portimao is not really a power circuit top speed for top team is around 315. Low grip and lack of traction seemed to be a problem for Rbr at that particular track
I think the RBR is the faster car over a single lap, the Mercedes of Hamilton is a tiny bit faster over a race distance. Mercedes still has the strongest power unit, but the Honda is right up there.

I wonder if Tsunoda's engine analysis made Honda get conservative with the power unit.

Then again if you can't get the tires working it is worth a lot of performance.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee