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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 04 Apr 2024, 04:36
by deadhead
I just watched a video on permanent magnet vs. induction electric motors and made me think about what kind are used in F1.. does anyone here know?
From what I saw in the video, I guess having both is best case scenario, but I doubt that's the case, so I'm guessing they are using permanent magnet because they can deliver more power at higher speeds.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 04 Apr 2024, 07:07
by saviour stivala
According to CAR MAGAZINE - (CARMAGAZINE.CO.UK OF 2020) MGU is a permanent magnet brushless AC electric motor.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 01 Jul 2024, 12:33
by JRodrigues
Audi has their on the benches and running full GP distances.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 01 Jul 2024, 14:02
by Tommy Cookers
deadhead wrote: ↑04 Apr 2024, 04:36
I just watched a video on permanent magnet vs. induction electric motors and made me think about what kind are used in F1.. does anyone here know?
From what I saw in the video, I guess having both is best case scenario, but I doubt that's the case, so I'm guessing they are using permanent magnet because they can deliver more power at higher speeds.
to not impede gearshifts the MGU-K needs high acceleration/deceleration ability 10000-11500 crank rpm in c.5 millisec
the induction machine can never be responsive enough for this
interestingly the latest plan for 2026 is to continue having 8 speeds (6 was predicted)
the rpm drop being 40% more with 6 speeds it's likely there's a shift response issue (with 6 speed & 2026-size MGU-K)
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 29 Nov 2024, 16:50
by clownfish
Does anybody happen to know what method current F1 engines use for their rev limiter(s)?
Just curious after some chat on various broadcasters around Gasly's engine failure.
I had a search but couldn't find anything concrete for the V6 formula.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Dec 2024, 06:57
by gruntguru
Depends what you mean by "method".
They would have several options available to them.
- Cut ignition. It is almost certain that Ignition cut is not used - unless fuel is simultaneously cut. Ignition cut alone wastes fuel.
- Cut fuel (skip injection). Fuel cut may be the most efficient. Leaving the throttle and boost in place ensures that firing events that remain are at the highest possible efficiency.
- Intake throttling. Throttling is easy to do - the ECU already has this capability.
Ignition cut or fuel cut would involve cutting ignition or fuel events in some order that shares the cutting over all cylinders. The number of "cut events" would start with a small number at some rpm just below the limit, and progressively increasing to 100% cut at the rpm limit.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Dec 2024, 18:42
by Vappy
Quite the spectacle to see the renault engine die after doing 13K RPM. I would imagine the tolerance levels (strength) is on the limit of engine use range, rather than build a bit stronger for that extra bit of reliability and pushing it harder for longer under certain conditions (strat mode, etc).
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Dec 2024, 19:26
by bananapeel23
Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑01 Jul 2024, 14:02
deadhead wrote: ↑04 Apr 2024, 04:36
I just watched a video on permanent magnet vs. induction electric motors and made me think about what kind are used in F1.. does anyone here know?
From what I saw in the video, I guess having both is best case scenario, but I doubt that's the case, so I'm guessing they are using permanent magnet because they can deliver more power at higher speeds.
to not impede gearshifts the MGU-K needs high acceleration/deceleration ability 10000-11500 crank rpm in c.5 millisec
the induction machine can never be responsive enough for this
interestingly the latest plan for 2026 is to continue having 8 speeds (6 was predicted)
the rpm drop being 40% more with 6 speeds it's likely there's a shift response issue (with 6 speed & 2026-size MGU-K)
I'm so happy they went for an 8-speed. A 6-speed would make these miserably slow cars even slower.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 17 Jan 2025, 00:24
by Jejking
Does anybody have any hard(ish) data on total fuel consumption through races of all time but especially in this era? I recall an interesting graph live on telly during especially the 2014 season where the consumed KGs were at full display, although the starting weight was never broadcasted (of course).
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 27 Feb 2025, 00:44
by ENGINE TUNER
Jejking wrote: ↑17 Jan 2025, 00:24
Does anybody have any hard(ish) data on total fuel consumption through races of all time but especially in this era? I recall an interesting graph live on telly during especially the 2014 season where the consumed KGs were at full display, although the starting weight was never broadcasted (of course).
I remember a race in 2014 or 2015 where Merc won a race using about 85kg of fuel. The v10s were using about 220L of fuel during refueling. The 2.4Lv8s used about 150kg. Sorry for the mixed units.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 27 Feb 2025, 21:45
by Tommy Cookers
Jejking wrote: ↑17 Jan 2025, 00:24
Does anybody have any hard(ish) data on total fuel consumption through races of all time but especially in this era? ..
the gas turbine F1 Lotus 56B has 350 litres fuel tankage
the F1 Alfa Romeo 159M has iirc 68 imperial gal tankage and did 1.5 mpg
the Novi (at Indy 1952 etc WDC-legal) had 85 US gal tankage
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 12 Nov 2025, 20:50
by trinidefender
As it stands right now Max V took a completely new PU in Brazil which only has to last 4 Grand Prix weekends (one of which is a sprint).
My question is this. Since it has to last a shorter period are Red Bull allowed by the regulations to run a different and slightly more aggressive engine map on Max’s car for the rest of the season or are they required to run the same map on Yuki’s and the Racing Bulls cars?
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 14 Nov 2025, 16:24
by michl420
trinidefender wrote: ↑12 Nov 2025, 20:50
As it stands right now Max V took a completely new PU in Brazil which only has to last 4 Grand Prix weekends (one of which is a sprint).
My question is this. Since it has to last a shorter period are Red Bull allowed by the regulations to run a different and slightly more aggressive engine map on Max’s car for the rest of the season or are they required to run the same map on Yuki’s and the Racing Bulls cars?
I think they can. Per regulation, it must be available for all customer. But I don`t think every car must run the same mapping.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 14 Nov 2025, 17:45
by saviour stivala
michl420 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2025, 16:24
trinidefender wrote: ↑12 Nov 2025, 20:50
As it stands right now Max V took a completely new PU in Brazil which only has to last 4 Grand Prix weekends (one of which is a sprint).
My question is this. Since it has to last a shorter period are Red Bull allowed by the regulations to run a different and slightly more aggressive engine map on Max’s car for the rest of the season or are they required to run the same map on Yuki’s and the Racing Bulls cars?
I think they can. Per regulation, it must be available for all customer. But I don`t think every car must run the same mapping.
Formula 1 teams are not required to use the same engine mapping on both of their cars.