F1technical.net

Gridlock wrote:Can you all at least agree that backwards is not the correct way to enter a corner?

No no no, in these guys world it´s actually fastest if you go upside down.

And if you remove all of the wings you will go even faster!!!

Give me a break and read a got damn basics book on what is more important, corner entry or corner exit.

Nando wrote:Let me know if you find a quote saying understeer on entry.

Which is really what all of this started.
Many people said it was there, i said i did not see any.
Nobody has found any evidence for it.

Okay so they are struggling with rear end of the way in so losing time correcting the back end and sliding and slowing down as a result (lost time there ouch).

Hitting the apex slower then they would have done if the car was handling right and having balance and having scrubbed off speed.

The car is now understeering out of the bend so they have to hold off full throttle so they don't run off the track till the front of the car comes to them then they can got full throttle, and that's good to have on any car?

As I say, it's a dog by design...

A corner to take example of would be the Parabolica or the La Source hairpin bend. So which would be the best way to take the corner because you have a long long straight coming up ahead?

Alonso "I could not even pass the HRT Karthikeyan. We lose 15-20 km / h on straight from other cars and this is part of our problems. It does not bode well even to gain positions in the race. "

Nando wrote:What you don´t realize is that if your car understeers, you will take a slower entry so you hit the apex just like you would in normal.

Whoa what? An understeering car doesn't lose the understeer just because you're going slower.

The whole thing is boring me now, It started when we all said the ferrari has understeer and oversteer. It does, Fact!

Then you said you couldnt see it and said we were all wrong.

Then you started going on about how Corner speed was not important, and it only matters how fast you exit a corner. I was then trying to tell you, corner speed is the most important thing. But you said i was wrong.

Then you start insulting people and wouldnt listen to anyone. Your entitled to your opinion, but theres no reason to carry on like have been.

I suggest everyone just ignore him, and he will calm down. So we can all focus on the race coming up in less than 12 hours

Nando, your lack of understanding is really astonishing. Tell Hamilton to calm down at corner entries, as it isn`t that much important to be fast there Schumacher would laugh his ass off, as his style is to carry as much speed as possible into the corner with a controlled oversteer. And please stop to behave like a guy who counts his pubes while waiting for the next post. Thanks in advance.

Yeah, If Massa gives away 2 - 2.5 seconds a lap, He will be lapped

Lewis better be carefull though

eurocentric wrote:Okay so they are struggling with rear end of the way in so losing time correcting the back end and sliding and slowing down as a result (lost time there ouch).

Yes all the time they are losing is because of spending time trying to get the power down to the road.

You know the power that actually moves the car forward..

eurocentric wrote:Hitting the apex slower then they would have done if the car was handling right and having balance and having scrubbed off speed.

Had they had balance they would have entered with the same speed they do now but with the extra rear downforce the tires would stick and the car would shoot out of the corner, gaining lots of time to the next braking zone.

eurocentric wrote:The car is now understeering out of the bend so they have to hold off full throttle so they don't run off the track till the front of the car comes to them then they can got full throttle, and that's good to have on any car?

I think it´s not anywhere near as bad as you think. You don´t hear him coming off the throttle the few times the rear tires sticks to the road.

No you don´t want any oversteer or understeer when going fast. But i would bet my house that chronic understeer is better then chronic oversteer.

Simply because understeer is more manageable and simply because that traction on exit is more important because of the straights. Something that is non-existent in corner-entries.

eurocentric wrote:As I say, it's a dog by design...

Remember these words. I will contact you at the end of the year. That´s a promise.

Also, what is a dog of a car? What are you vision as to where the Ferrari will be in the pecking order this season?

Yes back to the F2012... I think that the bulky bodywork around the exhaust cuts off or disrupts much flow to the coke bottle/beam wing area. How soon do you guys think Ferrari could implement a tidier solution like the RBR spec 1 or Sauber exhaust + bodywork?

raymondu999 wrote:An understeering car doesn't lose the understeer just because you're going slower.

Right back at you.

WHAT? Surely you are joking haha ???

Do you think a car understeers all the time, even at 5km/h ???

...and now i just realized what knowledge i´m dealing with here in terms of lines, entries, exits..

That was probably the highlight of my day

@Nando
Just out of interest why does your theories on racing come from? is it your own personal on track experiences or just what your "national Champion" friend tells you?

avatar wrote:If you imagine a thought, must you not have also thunk it?

I'm pretty sure I thunk it. Then again that may just have been the sound of my head hitting the desk after reading the last few pages.

To get back on topic I'm starting to wonder if the problem isn't actually actually at the back of the car. Sure the Acer ducts are far from ideal and make a mess of what look to pretty tight sidepods otherwise, but I'm not sure this is really causing problems on the scale they seem to be having.

Maybe some of the flow conditioners further forwards on the car are too sensitive to yaw resulting in the unpredictable cornering behaviour. It would at least explain why they don't seem to be able to find the problem after all the focus they've put in to looking at the rear of the car.

Nando wrote:Do you think a car understeers all the time, even at 5km/h ???

If you're talking about racing speed - it would most probably. You're not gonna get anywhere going through a corner at 5km/h

morefirejules08 wrote:@Nando
Just out of interest why does your theories on racing come from? is it your own personal on track experiences or just what your "national Champion" friend tells you?

I wasn´t the one with the national champ as friend.

Books, more books, racing drivers, racing driver teachers (whatever the shorter name of that is) etc.

This is why i get annoyed. Slow in, fast out is the first rule you learn in racing.
This is because fast out is more important then fast in.

You make sure you hit the apex and then get on the power as soon as possible and you never take your foot off the throttle unless you know you can keep it there.