F1technical.net

Does that really matter when the car is inverted? (I don't mean that flippantly.)

It certainly appears that the cars fin acted to straighter the car in mid air forcing it forward instead of sideways. At least then the car impacted the stronger front crash structure although that wasn't much use on landing

I thought, one of main ideas about the shark fin, apart from helping with directional stability (yaw), to prevent a spin,
was that in case of an spin and a car going sideways at high speed, it will create a high pressure area on top of the whole
area of the bodywork in front of the shark fin, thereby making it more difficult for the car to "lift off".

In a similar fashion like a "air dam" or "rear deck spoiler" would work. (see also NASCAR's roof flaps)

One could argue, that in this case, and other similar accidents, the new floor rules, demanding the floor to rise from the
centre towards the outside, are detrimental, by allowing more air to pass under the floor from the sides, when the car travels at 90° towards the oncoming air.

gato azul wrote:I thought, one of main ideas about the shark fin, apart from helping with directional stability (yaw), to prevent a spin,
was that in case of an spin and a car going sideways at high speed, it will create a high pressure area on top of the whole
area of the bodywork in front of the shark fin, thereby making it more difficult for the car to "lift off".
In a similar fashion like a "air dam" or "rear deck spoiler" would work.
One could argue, that in this case, and other similar accidents, the new floor rules, demanding the floor to rise from the
centre towards the outside, are detrimental, by allowing more air to pass under the floor from the sides.

Ground effect, i.e. jamming air under a car, is a very powerful aero force. Tapering the bottom from the side to the center could cut either way depending on the roll atitude. Blow-out panels in the car bottom could help.

gato azul wrote:I thought, one of main ideas about the shark fin, apart from helping with directional stability (yaw), to prevent a spin, was that in case of an spin and a car going sideways at high speed, it will create a high pressure area on top of the whole area of the bodywork in front of the shark fin, thereby making it more difficult for the car to "lift off".

Please see previous page.

As has already been mentioned, the car went airborne after the left-rear wheel was knocked off and the right side of the car slid over a curb. That curb provided just enough room to allow high pressure on the front-right of floor to lift the car, which had nothing on the left-rear to counteract the movement. Instead, the shark fin might have actually accelerated the yaw. That's the issue here.

olefud wrote:Blow-out panels in the car bottom could help.

Yes,
I agree with this sentiment

RacingManiac wrote:The Toyota also lost its rear wheel after the initial hit from the Ferrari, so the car is already sitting with its nose up on the right side as it starts to spin, probably letting more air underneath the car than it otherwise would have...

That was the point the car went into a sharp left turn ,was unable to put load on the front wheels due to the loss of the left rear and that was enough to flip it due to the speed .The fin is just too small in reference to the size of the car and its speed to have a major impact on what wa shappening .I tmay well have had an influence how the flight enrolled but that´s really academic...good grief ...that was a close call..LeMans is very close to fatalities for some years running now..So unfortunatelly we can expect something major happening soon.

bhallg2k wrote:Instead, the shark fin might have actually accelerated the yaw. That's the issue here.

Yes, it might have, might have not.
My thoughts where more in response to Shelly`s

At 90° yaw the fin has a big effect on the rolling moment that starts the roll.

You just can't cater for all possible combination of scenarios, like you said wheel lost, riding over a kerb etc. all contributed to the final result.
It remains to be seen, if a car without a tail fin, would not have lifted off in a similar fashion, or even more dramatic fashion.

No matter what speed, a fin that low would not have flipped a car that wide on its own. Even if that notion weren't idiotic, we would have to wonder why none of the spins that weren't induced by a Ferrari have led to flips. At that speed even a little air under the floor can make an LMP car tumble through the air.

Here's the impressive fight for the lead between Toyota #7 and Audi #1 , followed by Anthony Davidson's crash.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADZG09S ... r_embedded[/youtube]

skgoa wrote:No matter what speed, a fin that low would not have flipped a car that wide on its own. Even if that notion weren't idiotic, we would have to wonder why none of the spins that weren't induced by a Ferrari have led to flips. At that speed even a little air under the floor can make an LMP car tumble through the air.

Thank you for your inattention.

bhallg2k wrote:

skgoa wrote:No matter what speed, a fin that low would not have flipped a car that wide on its own. Even if that notion weren't idiotic, we would have to wonder why none of the spins that weren't induced by a Ferrari have led to flips. At that speed even a little air under the floor can make an LMP car tumble through the air.

Thank you for your inattention.

saaanap

bhallg2k wrote:

skgoa wrote:No matter what speed, a fin that low would not have flipped a car that wide on its own. Even if that notion weren't idiotic, we would have to wonder why none of the spins that weren't induced by a Ferrari have led to flips. At that speed even a little air under the floor can make an LMP car tumble through the air.

Thank you for your inattention.

No matter how often you repeat your fantasy, the fin still wasn't a factor.

Prove it.

I think Toyota should have some kudos for building a competitive vehicle, looking forward to what they have up their sleeve in the future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDJrZNSwNs