F1technical.net

autogyro wrote: I am well aware that mid engined cars have tighter packaging at the rear, however this is no excuse for a fire risk on this expensive product.

You know, I agree 100%. It's incredibly shoddy to let a dangerous design flaw out of the door.

Everyone makes mistakes though, be it Italians, Americans or English engineers. You can't tar them all with the same brush.

As far as image goes, this is a huge clanger for Ferrari.

This is the danger of using innovative technology and not use enough field testing. In the past you had the highest exhaust temperatures when the cars were running on full load. With direct injection and stratification this isn't the case any more. The engine goes very lean at low load conditions which drives exhaust temperatures up. In city traffic you also get starved ventilation of the engine compartment and this has probably caused the 458s to light up. Once the carbon body starts burning lustily the whole thing goes up in flames in minutes. I bet Ferrari will fix this one very quickly.

Funny thing is that I still totally want one.

honestly speaking ...if this is a underbonnet heat problem one has to ask what they were testing ...when developing this car.
you will obviously run the thing under lots of different conditons and will know exactly where and when critical under bonnet temps are reached.... if it is in stopand go normal day situations it is something hugely unaccepatable and no manufacturer would be foolish enough to let expose his customer to a permant high risk situation ...if they would not test /check temps under these conditons that would be a indication of lack of expertise. which was even worse.

I see no reason why a mid engine layout should be a at higher risk than front engine layout.
Obviously the front engine will have more of a cooling airflow coming from the radiator fan(s) but this is an obvious thing to check in mid engien application if you´d still need to have an auxilliary fan to keep underbonnet temps in check,
something Porsche is doing with their rear engine layout since 996 days.
I think Audi has now added something like this to the R8 as well?

R8 pics engine/cutaway complete car look at the excessive heat shielding on the dyno ....

As I have already pointed out Ferrari have plenty experience with mid engined cars. The new issue they had with the Italia is the extreme lean combustion mode of the engine in city traffic. This is the first direct injection engine which runs stratified fuel charge that they do. They probably did not do enough tests under such conditions. Of course this is just an assumption on my part. There could be all kinds of other reasons like faulty assembly missing a heat shield, electronic fault or a fuel system leak. I just got curious when I saw that this happens in city traffic.

WhiteBlue wrote:As I have already pointed out Ferrari have plenty experience with mid engined cars. The new issue they had with the Italia is the extreme lean combustion mode of the engine in city traffic. This is the first direct injection engine which runs stratified fuel charge that they do. They probably did not do enough tests under such conditions. Of course this is just an assumption on my part. There could be all kinds of other reasons like faulty assembly missing a heat shield, electronic fault or a fuel system leak. I just got curious when I saw that this happens in city traffic.

i´d say these cars see more of city traffic than anything else....I just can´t believe Ferrari would ignore a critical engine compartment heat situation in product development.
as we have seen the fire starting from both sides you got a point there with
the suspicion though...

The F458 gets some of its engine bay cooling from vents placed in front of the rear wheels but on the underside of the car rather than in the flanks. I wonder if the cars that have caught fire have done so because these inlets have become clogged (partially or totally) with road dirt/grime. The car may be beautifully washed up top, but I bet some owners never check these vents...

i´d say that may explain a bit..

Jalopnik states: "We’ve heard from one owner tonight that they received a letter from Ferrari claiming a gas overflow tube and gas vapor system were placed too close to the engine, thus creating the possibility of a fire. The owner was told they can take their vehicle to their dealer to receive a fix. We’re currently trying to confirm this report and will update you as soon as we get it."

This recall has yet to be confirmed, but it would definitely be a valid reason for these random fires sprouting all over the place.

http://jalopnik.com/5624193/ferrari-458 ... nconfirmed

From the pictures in the latest updates at jalopnik it appears that the air outlet in the wheel arch got a new fixture for the breather hose.







It looks like the breather hose is now taking the fumes out of the engine compartment which previously may not have been the case. So the accident cause may be that the hose ended too close to the engine and fuel fumes have ignited in the engine compartment. The fire then went out the vent grill into the wheel arches. Funny thing is the grill in the first picture is metal and the two following pics show a plastic part.

Ferrari are recalling the F458 now.

BTW: I like the term "thermal incident"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11156782

haha .. now thats an explanation.
took them quite a while to discover a wrongly specified glue..where is their process?

in german OEM circles the official term is: -rapid corrosion - but thermal event is also very creative pr-babble...
You would not dare to speak of a fire when working in the automotive industry..
that will undoubtedly give you a meeting with your boss or his boss..

Hasnt it gone silent on this issue.
Ferrari fan boys hanging their heads in shame as they recall this disaster.
Anyone know where I can find old 458 bits to light my BBQ with?

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

surely not the highpoint in their history, but not that long ago there where cars from a large OEM who catched fire duing refueling at a petrol station - these things happen.
asi is la vida

always easy to take a cheap shot out of your armchair

I choose to deviate there 747 .
these things do not just happen...with validation tests before going into production and in the field testing galore basic things show up usually in the development cycle.
Then starts a risk assessment and someone decides if the risk is going to be high enough to swith on the red light and you have to erase the possible fault.
Of course being late in the timeplanning people tend to talk down possible issues but I highly doubt issues do not show in development sometime but reality is they get not traced up and solved as it would be necessary because of ignorance or whatever...I worked there I can assure you going through old documents has more than once shown a problem not popping up out of the blue but being ignored or downplayed or too lazy analised and not solved /validated as necessary when first appeared.
so something like a bonding material self igniting at normal engine compartment temps (Hot idle,heat soak condition).. thats´a joke really ....of course you need to specify your materials and have a safety margin on top of what you see in reality ..so having the man specifying the glue not knowing what underhood temps he´s going to see ..is ignorance and typical COP
(carryoverpart) mentality .It worked on the last car ..so it will work on the new ...that stile of approach will always present you with unpleasant surprises..