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Mudflap wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2017, 14:47

They could be running any engine in FP, doesn't have to be the latest.

It has to be the new engine because they need time to properly set it up, Mercedes too it's running the new spec. I don't know how detuned they are running but I don't expect them to be in the fight for Q3.

Hasegawa already told to the BBC that the update was pretty small, that's why I said it was unsurprising, but they are about 10+ km/h slower than Mercedes at Radillon and 20+ km/h slower at the end of the Kemmel straight and it's harsh to see 3 year into this project.

It feels like everything has changed just to be the same as before.

Joseki wrote:

Mudflap wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2017, 14:47

They could be running any engine in FP, doesn't have to be the latest.

It has to be the new engine because they need time to properly set it up, Mercedes too it's running the new spec. I don't know how detuned they are running but I don't expect them to be in the fight for Q3.

Hasegawa already told to the BBC that the update was pretty small, that's why I said it was unsurprising, but they are about 10+ km/h slower than Mercedes at Radillon and 20+ km/h slower at the end of the Kemmel straight and it's harsh to see 3 year into this project.

It feels like everything has changed just to be the same as before.

It's not 3 years into this project, but it is harsh to see that deficit.

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JonoNic wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2017, 16:26

It's not 3 years into this project, but it is harsh to see that deficit.

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Well, Honda started in 2013 right? That's 5 years.

Spec 4 story.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... 44753/amp/

Albert Fabrega said that Hasegawa said Alonso might get spec 4 in Monza, but i am not sure if he ment spec 3.6 that VAN has in SPA.

Joseki wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2017, 16:59

JonoNic wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2017, 16:26

It's not 3 years into this project, but it is harsh to see that deficit.

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Well, Honda started in 2013 right? That's 5 years.

New Concept (maybe a year old at this point), same old problems. However it looks like they might finally be on the
right track. But we shall see.

Engine problem for Vandoorne, they reverted on spec 3.5.

It's a never ending nightmare.

Oh oh...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vand ... 45005/?s=1

So installing the 3.5 just like Alonso. If 3.6 just had a reliability fix for a component over the 3.5, I'd love to know what it was. I'm glad they're now just throwing everything on the grid and testing now. This second half is just a giant winter testing now.

"NO POWER!"

Is there any news on the problem Fernando had?

At the Belgian Grand Prix in the opening round of the summer vacation, Honda launched a separate power update unit for the two drivers. Fernando Alonso is an improved specification 3.5 for parts other than the engine body 3.5. In addition to the same improvements as Alonso, SV is spec 3.6 that also improved the engine itself.

Improvement of the engine body is mainly improvement of reliability, while improvements of parts other than the engine body are aimed at improving performance. Specifically, what improved?

"The improvement of this time raised the torque in the low speed range, the power of one mini vehicle is raised in terms of low speed torque," Yusuke Hasegawa chief manager Honda F1 says.

The low speed corner at the spa is about 1 corner and the last corner. After free practice, general manager Hasegawa also laughed, "From the driver I was told that" I do not know the difference so much at the spa. "

So why did Honda introduce a power unit with specifications raising the torque in the low speed region to the spa of the high speed circuit? It is because I had a bitter experience with the start of the previous Hungarian Grand Prix.

Alonso started from 7th in Hungary GP. Although the response at the start was not bad, the acceleration after that did not grow, and it was ended up by Carlos Saints Jr. who started from ninth in the first corner. Because I overtook after the first pit stop, I got a story but it was the result of revealing weak points at the start.

"As the torque in the low speed region rises, the timing of the shift-up also changes, which will lead to a more smooth acceleration, and I wanted to confirm the improvement of that part on Friday's free practice," he said.

In fact, Friday's free practice was "a rare, completely problem free day" (general manager Hasegawa). "It's nice to rate performance on Friday's race so I can not say it at all, but it was good that I finished running at least with no problems, not only was there no trouble, but problems with driver rity, such as oscillation ( It is positive to not being bothered by such as resonance etc. "
Translated by rudex

Engine decidion in 1-2 weeks.
Mclaren happy Honda has Ilmor help.
Alonso likely to stay.

https://youtu.be/WT94rDxN3Do

Edit: Mark Webber only jurnalist that knows how to ask right questions

FvtecA wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2017, 13:10

Now we want to solve the inverse problem. Once we see the qualifying numbers at Spa, and assuming that the next Honda upgrade is coming, we want to know how much HP will Honda be at. For my Hungary prediction I assumed that Hungary in principle is a similar track to Spain. I'll assume that Spa will be similar to Silverstone. So lead Merc to lead McLaren was at 2.8 s. Now Spa 2016 P1 was 1:46.744. Assuming there will be a 3.5 s improvement we'll say it will be 1:43.2 this year. So scaling that we get 3.3 s. So at current spec we are down 3.3 s. Now, how much does 10 HP give at Spa. Assuming 70 HP deficit at Silverstone, that's a whopping 0.4 s and scaling that takes us to 0.48 s.

Now we assume that by then this spec will be at 930 HP with all optimizations. Another thing I'll do is that I reduce deficit by 0.1 s every 15 HP simply for a halo effect since they can add more downforce with higher speed. So lets do the numbers again.

Baseline:
(995 - 930)*0.48 - 0.0 = 3.1

+15 HP
(995 - 945)*0.48 - 0.1 = 2.3

+30 HP
(995 - 960)*0.48 - 0.2 = 1.5

+45 HP (Too optimistic)
(995 - 975)*0.48 - 0.3 = 0.7

So, near Spa, we'll see more speculations from different sources about how much HP they'll bring. And once qualifying happens, if these numbers are reasonable we'll know roughly how much HP it is.

So lets check back with the numbers. Though I must provide a caveat since others have complained that these HP numbers don't mean anything in this formula. So I'll only say that the HP numbers I am using is just a model that represents how much time is being lost due to engine alone.

So qualifying. Unfortunately, it would have been better if Alonso had gone into Q3 and we would have final numbers so we have to make an added layer of assumption. So assuming that Alonso's time would have been the same in Q3 considering Hulkenberg's time was the same, he lost 2.5 s to Hamilton.

If we correct for 2.5 s in the above model, we get

+15 HP
(995 - 941)*0.48 - 0.07 = 2.5

So, its close to the 15 HP we were lead to believe by previous rumors if the starting point was 925 HP. That suggests we are at 940 HP. Now to confirm these numbers, I would need to do a similar analysis at Monza. Unfortunately, while Silverstone seemed a good model for Spa, I don't know which circuit to use for Monza. Baku? Austria? Spa?

Joseki wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2017, 15:25

"NO POWER!"

Is there any news on the problem Fernando had?

Ers Battery issue.

According to Fabrega the problem was in the engine mappings: Fernando did Pouhon flat out that lap and the engine run out of hybrid boost.

Joseki wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2017, 18:46

According to Fabrega the problem was in the engine mappings: Fernando did Pouhon flat out that lap and the engine run out of hybrid boost.

Yes, that's why Alonso said he lost almost 0.5 sec. Q3 was not a dream, it was a real possibility.

Hasegawa: The problem with Honda's MGU - H was primarily water leakage from the seal at first, but after that it suffered from the problem that the bearings stuck. And the cause was oil.
"The oil in the oil tank will blow, because of the so-called oil blowing, oil has entered the turbo and has done a lot of bad.In a bench it will not let you run in the situation where the oil blows So it was a problem I did not notice. "

"Actually, this problem was caused by so-called oil spikes that oil pressure did not circulate well during deceleration during deceleration in the winter test, so we did not bring down oil pressure, so we increased the amount of oil I was suffering from the problem that the oil would blow, it was a phenomenon that would not happen on the bench, and I reviewed the oil system to crush the trouble. "