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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 13:56
by Joseki
Toro Rosso - Honda is reported again in the paddock.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 14:26
by maguetox
Joseki wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 13:56
Toro Rosso - Honda is reported again in the paddock.
Well a few minutes ago Albert Fabrega spoke with Zak B and apparently the decission is already made. Albert also comment that in this moment there is a meeting in Japan where they are analyzing McLaren proposal and tormorrow the head of Honda motosport will be in Monza finalizing the details. Sunday 6 p.m. Is the dateline.
Just 48 hours more.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:01
by ZakB
maguetox wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 14:26
Joseki wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 13:56
Toro Rosso - Honda is reported again in the paddock.
Well a few minutes ago Albert Fabrega spoke with Zak B and apparently the decission is already made. Albert also comment that in this moment there is a meeting in Japan where they are analyzing McLaren proposal and tormorrow the head of Honda motosport will be in Monza finalizing the details. Sunday 6 p.m. Is the dateline.
Just 48 hours more.
Thank god, I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to run Renault engines next year and switch back to Honda in 2019, while Toro Rosso moves to Honda (during this message Sainz's engine blew up
).
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:04
by godlameroso
Honda stays with McLaren, nothing else makes sense.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:09
by stevesingo
And Honda get more data, and McLaren get a chunk of money for gearboxes.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:12
by Craigy
godlameroso wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:04
Honda stays with McLaren, nothing else makes sense.
Yup.
I think the proposed Honda engine deal with STR is a replacement for the deal with Sauber rather than the deal with McLaren.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:15
by dren
Craigy wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:12
godlameroso wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:04
Honda stays with McLaren, nothing else makes sense.
Yup.
I think the proposed Honda engine deal with STR is a replacement for the deal with Sauber rather than the deal with McLaren.
Yes. And I think it's a trial for RB, too.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:19
by MrPotatoHead
Why do some feel that Honda can never achieve the power that Mercedes has?
Mercedes cannot keep finding 15HP with every update. They are getting diminishing returns with every update as they get closer and closer to the limits.
Over time Honda will get closer and closer until they catch up. Assuming they are on the right track - that’s a big if though.
Anyone thinking otherwise is naive.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:27
by Joseki
Vandoorne's speed in race mode is terrible, not even 300 km/h.
The others are about 310 km/h.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:42
by ArcticWolfie
Joseki wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:27
Vandoorne's speed in race mode is terrible, not even 300 km/h.
The others are about 310 km/h.
I saw the same... but it looked like he wasn't trying that lap. Still I saw Alonso going 330km/h @ speed trap without tow (just DRS), just after complaining "no power!".
And I think Alonso set his 8th time without tow, because there was nobody near him and I believe Vandoorne was in the pit.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:43
by OviJohn
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:19
Why do some feel that Honda can never achieve the power that Mercedes has?
Mercedes cannot keep finding 15HP with every update. They are getting diminishing returns with every update as they get closer and closer to the limits.
Over time Honda will get closer and closer until they catch up. Assuming they are on the right track - that’s a big if though.
Anyone thinking otherwise is naive.
Plus the clampdown on the "Burning oil" is going to keep a leash or hinder Mercedes/Ferrari from achieving further gains down that road.
On another note, Alonsos 1.22.9 was without any tow. Race pace of course, is a whole different matter.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:59
by HPD
·The new engine didnt have big gains in power output,this is why its called SPEC 3.7.
·They decided to introduce the new engine in FP1,and then they will not use it again until Singapore GP.The rest of this weekend,they will use the SPEC 3.5 Which alonso used in SPA.
·There will be a new Qualifying mode,so this may help the team to have a better result in Singapore because the qualifying is important there.
·Monza and SPA are Back-to-back races,so its hard to introduce SPEC 4 engine.
·The SPEC 4 which aim to have big changes in ICE area is still under development.
·The SPEC 3.7 will have a lighter ICE.So the toall weight of engine will be lighter.
·Alonso will return to use SPEC 3.5 from FP2.
·The HRD use the interval time between SPA and Monza to have some bench test on SPEC 3.5.As a result,They deliver more power from the SPEC 3.5 by more aggressive system setting.They aim to have more power at some important point,such as qualifying session.
·The Monza will be the biggest challenge for Mclaren Honda,because the full throttle rate here is more than 75%.
thanks to @hasika autosportforum
http://members.f1-life.net/race/57931/
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2017 ... ports-moto
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 16:02
by diffuser
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:19
Why do some feel that Honda can never achieve the power that Mercedes has?
Mercedes cannot keep finding 15HP with every update. They are getting diminishing returns with every update as they get closer and closer to the limits.
Over time Honda will get closer and closer until they catch up. Assuming they are on the right track - that’s a big if though.
Anyone thinking otherwise is naive.
I don't think anyone REALLY thinks that Honda can't achieve it. It's more that they're NOT willing to wait.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 16:21
by loner
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:19
Why do some feel that Honda can never achieve the power that Mercedes has?
its a grace from outer space for all but Honda.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 Sep 2017, 16:37
by Nuvolari
Joseki wrote: ↑01 Sep 2017, 15:27
Vandoorne's speed in race mode is terrible, not even 300 km/h.
The others are about 310 km/h.
I was following Alonso's long run towards end of FP2, as he was behind Vettel. I think Vettel might have been getting a tow from Verstappen in some of these laps. I'm assuming Alonso was too far away to benefit in the last few laps.
Vmax delta to Vettel on the straights before some of these corners (actual speed of Alonso in brackets):
-10 kph Variante del rettifilio (varied from 307 - 314 km/h)
-5 kph Variante della roggia (299 km/h)
-10 kph Variante Ascari (308 km/h)
-6 kph Curva Parabolica (311 km/h)
I remember earlier on in the season when McLaren were a whopping 25 km/h slower than Ferrari on Vmax in races and against some Merc customer PU cars. Surely this is a massive improvement?
Race pace during these laps were in the high 26s, which is not very competitive though.