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Muulka wrote:

ReoPTy wrote:

Muulka wrote:
My understanding (from speaking to people who talk to people in Viry) is that they still haven't progressed past the single cylinder for next year.

"We know exactly what we have on the bench for 2017 because the V6 is already on the bench and I think it is encouraging."

fred vasseur

Wouldn't be the first time someone said something not quite true to the media, would it? I'm not going to sit here and say 100% that they're still on 1 cylinder. I'm just saying that people who really should know this told me as such.

The good news is that they think from whatever tests they've carried out so far (whether that be 1 cylinder or 6) are showing a very, very big increase in overall performance for next year. They won't catch Mercedes, but they'll be a lot closer.

(That is assuming they don't make a dog turd like last year)

Well, its Fred Vasseur , and my clues are that the V6 ICe is on the bench since august, the single cylinder was on the bench since february !

http://fr.motorsport.com/f1/news/renaul ... 17-826447/

here in french he said " we know exactly what we have on the bench, because the ICE is already on the bench"

now maybe Illmor and AVL still in paralell are testing new parts on one cylinders dynos ?

regards

PS, its 2 tenth, the last upgrade !

Gone

If Renault don't have a prototype 2017 v6 testing by now then you can be sure that it will be behind the 8 ball again. They may have a single cylinder test bench to try things but for sure they will have to have the 2017 engine running now with 2017 testing starting in only 5 months time. The AbuDhabi test might also be a good time to test a prototype 2017 engine as well.

carisi2k wrote:If Renault don't have a prototype 2017 v6 testing by now then you can be sure that it will be behind the 8 ball again. They may have a single cylinder test bench to try things but for sure they will have to have the 2017 engine running now with 2017 testing starting in only 5 months time. The AbuDhabi test might also be a good time to test a prototype 2017 engine as well.

There is only a tyre test in Abu Dhabi.

carisi2k wrote:If Renault don't have a prototype 2017 v6 testing by now then you can be sure that it will be behind the 8 ball again. They may have a single cylinder test bench to try things but for sure they will have to have the 2017 engine running now with 2017 testing starting in only 5 months time. The AbuDhabi test might also be a good time to test a prototype 2017 engine as well.

I don't think it implies that they are behind at all.

Cylinder count is scalable. Renault will easily be able to make a V6 once they are happy with their cylinder and combustion concept, which is what is most important. Efficiency is king, and thus a lot of time should be spend on making improvements in this area.

ME4ME wrote:

carisi2k wrote:If Renault don't have a prototype 2017 v6 testing by now then you can be sure that it will be behind the 8 ball again. They may have a single cylinder test bench to try things but for sure they will have to have the 2017 engine running now with 2017 testing starting in only 5 months time. The AbuDhabi test might also be a good time to test a prototype 2017 engine as well.

I don't think it implies that they are behind at all.

Cylinder count is scalable. Renault will easily be able to make a V6 once they are happy with their cylinder and combustion concept, which is what is most important. Efficiency is king, and thus a lot of time should be spend on making improvements in this area.

I think Renault is also supposed to have new ers next year. The one they are currently racing is still 2015 version. They surely must have tested at least some components (apart from single cyllinder) for 2016.

Gone

Muulka wrote:

jure wrote:

ME4ME wrote:
I don't think it implies that they are behind at all.

Cylinder count is scalable. Renault will easily be able to make a V6 once they are happy with their cylinder and combustion concept, which is what is most important. Efficiency is king, and thus a lot of time should be spend on making improvements in this area.

I think Renault is also supposed to have new ers next year. The one they are currently racing is still 2015 version. They surely must have tested at least some components (apart from single cyllinder) for 2016.

The ERS is what changed most between last year and this year

According to Taffin the biggest change over the winter was in combustion chamber. AT the end of 2015 they spent 11 tokens to upgrade TC and "test" some CC stuff. Then, over the winter, they made further changes to CC and spent 7 tokens. I don't see how could they have changed ers without spending more tokens.

Gone

Also known as Schroedinger's update.

ME4ME wrote:

carisi2k wrote:If Renault don't have a prototype 2017 v6 testing by now then you can be sure that it will be behind the 8 ball again. They may have a single cylinder test bench to try things but for sure they will have to have the 2017 engine running now with 2017 testing starting in only 5 months time. The AbuDhabi test might also be a good time to test a prototype 2017 engine as well.

I don't think it implies that they are behind at all.

Cylinder count is scalable. Renault will easily be able to make a V6 once they are happy with their cylinder and combustion concept, which is what is most important. Efficiency is king, and thus a lot of time should be spend on making improvements in this area.

The single cylinder is a nice idea to prove concepts but you need to have the 6 cylinder engine running to see how all the components of a 6 cylinder engine work together. This is especially important when there is only just over 4-5 months before the first test of 2017.

Oh and also you need to see how the engine works with the ers, cooling and transmission etc. A single cylinder engine can not evaluate this work.

carisi2k wrote:Oh and also you need to see how the engine works with the ers, cooling and transmission etc. A single cylinder engine can not evaluate this work.

Building a complete engine and fully verify it is a waste of time. They are not re-inventing the engine, they already have a base platform. What they need to do is improve combustion by a small margin. The most efficient way is to do that through simulation and prototyp single cylinders. This will enable them to quickly and economically go through many iterations of their cylinder design. Full PU testing will probably occur at a much later stage.

ME4ME wrote:

carisi2k wrote:Oh and also you need to see how the engine works with the ers, cooling and transmission etc. A single cylinder engine can not evaluate this work.

Building a complete engine and fully verify it is a waste of time. They are not re-inventing the engine, they already have a base platform. What they need to do is improve combustion by a small margin. The most efficient way is to do that through simulation and prototyp single cylinders. This will enable them to quickly and economically go through many iterations of their cylinder design. Full PU testing will probably occur at a much later stage.

Except the 2017 Renault engine is supposed to be moving to a split turbine solution and have a pre chamber solution which the current 2016 engine still lacks. My understanding was that this is the whole reason behind why they haven't done any significant upgrades since Monaco.

ME4ME wrote:

carisi2k wrote:Oh and also you need to see how the engine works with the ers, cooling and transmission etc. A single cylinder engine can not evaluate this work.

Building a complete engine and fully verify it is a waste of time. They are not re-inventing the engine, they already have a base platform. What they need to do is improve combustion by a small margin. The most efficient way is to do that through simulation and prototyp single cylinders. This will enable them to quickly and economically go through many iterations of their cylinder design. Full PU testing will probably occur at a much later stage.

5 months is not long enough to be comfortable, I know that for definite. A single cylinder give you a tiny amount of information. You need all the data for the crankcases, heads, valvetrain, front gear set, mounting, cooling, heat disspation etc etc etc.

They arent re-inventing the engine but when everything is running right on the margin a small increase in cylinder pressure/vibrations/heat can have catastrophic effects.

Some of the parts (heads/Crankcases in particular) have massive lead times (for F1) they need to be turning up pretty soon.

But then again I dont really believe that Renaults 2017 unit is just a single cylinder at this stage.