Page 737 of 1336
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Sep 2017, 20:51
by dren
Everyone is playing by the same formula. We've been lead to believe it is not the piston-bore friction. That should be well understood by now with materials allowed. My guess is it is due to a design compromise elsewhere in the engine; it's why we are discussing the head.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 00:03
by taperoo2k
makecry wrote: ↑07 Sep 2017, 02:07
ZakB wrote: ↑07 Sep 2017, 01:25
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑07 Sep 2017, 01:08
It's almost impossible to "only" talk about the ICE on these power units. It is never that simple - especially in "qualifying mode"
So they feel that they are only 25BHP short of beating Renault? If that was actually the case, McLaren wouldn't consider switching.
It's not just about max power output. Fuel efficiency, reliability, power delivery , deployment.Every single time I see the max power output number thrown around it makes me roll my eyes.
I'm a bit tired of seeing people talk about Horse power as if that's the defining feature of a PU. The fundamentals of these hybrid power units are Fuel Efficiency, ERS and Deployment. Get any of those wrong and you are in trouble.
Not sure if this is the right thread for it, but an interesting article about Honda trying to get it's engineering mojo back -
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe ... nnovation/
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 01:23
by HPD
It seems Mclaren is not going to give the gearbox to Honda.
CHRISTIAN HORNER: “It doesn’t directly affect us. It’s much more of a Toro Rosso issue as they’ll have to design a car and a gearbox around that power unit if they decide to go down that route for next year.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 01:55
by Zynerji
I thought the front and rear mounting points on the engines were in spec locations to allow easier interchange?
Shouldn't the RBR gearbox casing mounts match up at least? Then shouldn't it just be changing the dampening characteristics of the internals to match the torque shock loads of the Honda? I know it's not easy, but RBR should be able to sort that in a few weeks, surely?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 02:15
by PlatinumZealot
The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 04:43
by gruntguru
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑07 Sep 2017, 14:09
It is a very real problem. Build some high PR turbo engines and you can run into it. It is has been seen on engine dynos using measuring equipment monitoring the valvetrain.
The problem is more about controlling the valve during the opening and closing events.
To be more specific, I would think exhaust opening (high opening force so not a "float" event) and inlet closing (a potential "valve float" event).
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 08:54
by Andres125sx
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 09:20
by lio007
Andres125sx wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 08:54
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
Unfortunately I don't understand spanish. Why has there been 1.2
kg x 100 on the slides? I thought it'd be 1.2
liter per 100km!?
BTW: I don't think this topic is really associated with the Honda PU, isn't it? Or are there any special comments on Honda in the video?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 10:44
by J.A.W.
Andres125sx wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 08:54
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?
Is it relating to basic engine architecture, or is it pressure, &/or temperature gradients, within the gas flow stream?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 14:23
by HPD
J.A.W. wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 10:44
Andres125sx wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 08:54
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?
He speaks of active valves, which communicate the crankcase (or oil tank) to the intake. As an example
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 15:09
by mrluke
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 02:15
The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.
Mclaren have had a lot of problems with their gearbox this year, I don't think it's something G that somebody can just knock up in a couple of weeks.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 17:07
by loner
mrluke wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 15:09
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 02:15
The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.
Mclaren have had a lot of problems with their gearbox this year, I don't think it's something G that somebody can just knock up in a couple of weeks.
but what is the fuss about a tycoon engine manufacture to build a gearbox?!!
in other words what prevent Honda from building their own?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 17:54
by fellowhoodlums
time - can you design, build and fit your own gearbox in 5 months? Can you mate your own gearbox in that time period...yes....perhaps not perfectly at first.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 17:57
by Andres125sx
lio007 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 09:20
Andres125sx wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 08:54
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
Unfortunately I don't understand spanish. Why has there been 1.2
kg x 100 on the slides? I thought it'd be 1.2
liter per 100km!?
That´s what he meant, even when the graphic is a bit misleading
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 08 Sep 2017, 18:02
by Andres125sx
J.A.W. wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 10:44
Andres125sx wrote: ↑08 Sep 2017, 08:54
Very interesting, thank you
So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine
What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?
Is it relating to basic engine architecture, or is it pressure, &/or temperature gradients, within the gas flow stream?
What HPD said, but exactly at the end of the video he talk about active valves to allow when they want that conexion so those gas/vapor (not sure what´s the correct term in english) can enter the intake... and the video finish without any futher detail
He´s implying the oil addition is not directly oil in liquid state, but its gas/vapor... is that correct?
