Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.
A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail
To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.
Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
...
You're just assuming they'd be using the battery for the whole season, but that's not set in stone.
Problem with a battery is not more of an automatic DNF than a problem with the motor, or suspension. This is just another assumption you pulled out of thin air.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 16 Nov 2016, 15:45
by RicME85
The batteries have to be crash tested before they can be used.
Per the original tender, MAT will be required to submit the battery for crash testing by June 1 2017, and a test battery must be available to teams by November 1.
You arent going to be putting experimental batteries in racecars for this reason.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 16 Nov 2016, 19:34
by mzso
RicME85 wrote:The batteries have to be crash tested before they can be used.
Per the original tender, MAT will be required to submit the battery for crash testing by June 1 2017, and a test battery must be available to teams by November 1.
You arent going to be putting experimental batteries in racecars for this reason.
I don't see that as a problem. Some so-far not marketed technologies are actually safer than plain Li-ion cells in on the road cars. Such as the tesla ones which catch fire when penetrated, because they have flammable electrolytes.
eg:
If memory serves, the same enhanced safety is true for the other round-the-cornert battery tech: Solid electrolyte batteries and Lithium-silicon batteries.
(Not sure about more far-off batteries, such as Li-air)
I fail to see why couldn't more battery providers sign up, so that teams could pick whichever they like. And switch if need be a limited amount of times a year
Re: Formula E
Posted: 16 Nov 2016, 23:40
by Jolle
Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.
A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail
To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.
Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
There is a difference between "experimental" and "state of art". FE packs are state of art. Just like any part of any racing car it's a balance between weight, performance, strength and reliability.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 17 Nov 2016, 12:22
by Andres125sx
Jolle wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.
A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail
To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.
Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
There is a difference between "experimental" and "state of art". FE packs are state of art. Just like any part of any racing car it's a balance between weight, performance, strength and reliability.
Exactly, FE batteries are not experimental, they´ve been extensively tested and proved safe.
But even without considering safety, who´d pay for a battery wich has not been tested and can perform great but it can also finish your race before expected?
Re: Formula E
Posted: 17 Nov 2016, 16:15
by Paul
Teams can be pretty ruthless with their suppliers, however. Red Bull/Renault comes to mind immediately, but that's not the only example.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 17 Nov 2016, 19:38
by Andres125sx
mzso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote: who´d pay for a battery wich has not been tested and can perform great but it can also finish your race before expected?
Any team in any formula series for example. Because that's the essence of most formula series, running custom-engineered, unproven prototypes.
Sorry but no, they´re not competing to test custom engineered prototypes, they´re competing to win. If using any custom engineered prototype may provide an advantage, they´ll give it a try, period. But only if the benefits may be bigger than the risks. That does not apply with prototype batteries as the risk is several orders of magnitude higher than the posible benefits. It´s not an unproved suspension wich if not working as expected will cause laptimes to increase some tenth, with batteries any fail will mean a DNF, so nobody will risk all their job to some unproven battery.
If any PU manufacturer say they can provide a PU with 10% more power than the rest, but they cannot guarantee reliability so it could stop working from time to time. Do you think any team will pay for that PU?
Re: Formula E
Posted: 22 Nov 2016, 17:45
by Paul
You're describing current Merc F1 PU, aren't you?
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 17:39
by Andres125sx
Spark won the tender and they will continue as chassis supplier for FE in 2018 and 2019
And they finally did what I was hoping for since season one, get rid of wings. When you don´t need tons of downforce there´re much better solutions, with much better L/D ratios, than wings.
Probably similar filosophy to the Aston Martin hiper car, and also Roborace.... Maybe we´re seeing the origin of a new era on aerodinamycs?
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 19:31
by biker_ev
Non open wheel formula car - but I really like it!
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 22:24
by FrukostScones
And people wonder why the end is near.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 22:46
by Facts Only
Looks good, reminds me of F-Zero or Wipeout.
This is what Formula E should have looked like from the start, not the shoddy looking Indy car knock-off they came up with originally.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 22:57
by Tim.Wright
Andres125sx wrote:This is the SRT05E
According to motorsport.com it's just a concept. They won the tender but they haven't settled on a final design yet as the car is still in development.
Mildy related, but there's something about racecars with styled bodywork which really kill it for me...
Re: Formula E
Posted: 13 Feb 2017, 23:22
by FrukostScones
Facts Only wrote:Looks good, reminds me of F-Zero or Wipeout.
This is what Formula E should have looked like from the start, not the shoddy looking Indy car knock-off they came up with originally.
loos like F-Zero. But they are excitingly fast as F-Zzzzzzzzzero.
Seen it in person (twice ), so slow.
Re: Formula E
Posted: 14 Feb 2017, 11:47
by Andres125sx
FrukostScones wrote:And people wonder why the end is near.
