F1technical.net

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 15:27**

I'm still trying to get my head round why Mercedes decided that it'd be absolutely no problem for them to test with their current car when everyone with any sort of interest in F1 knows what the rules on that are. What were they thinking?

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 15:41**

SectorOne wrote:
diffuser wrote:I'd think it's more like 1 runner blaming his shoes when another runner runs past him. It's amazing they can manage the Fuel! How is it they don't run out of Fuel ? Cause they Manage it.
No it´s calculated. It would be the same as Pirelli´s if the fuel starting to degrade in efficiency just because it´s one degree above the working temperature leaving the car with 50 horsepower less.

diffuser wrote:Why don't they carry enough fuel to go full out for the whole race?
Because the first thing that would go is.......drumrolls.......the tires...
Sometimes they bank on a safety car period and pay the price for it in the race but that´s different.

diffuser wrote:Why don't they complain about the 17K rev limit ?
Because it´s a regulation.

diffuser wrote:and create artificial engineering challenges
It´s actually the opposite. More regulations, less innovation and engineering challenges.

diffuser wrote:In my opinion the 2013 tires are no different than Double diffuser ban, 17k rev limiter, engine restrictions, 4 gearboxes per season, narrower rear wings

All regulations..
Where in the sporting or technical regulations can i read about how the Pirelli tires should act?

The basis of all your arguments are with regards to the tires NOT being part of the "FORMULA". The F1 rules say the tires will not change in spec after the spec is released on Sept 1 of the previous year. So all the teams knew about them (like the any other regulation) and they also knew how they would act. It was up to the teams to adjust (just like any other regulation). As of Sept 1 2012 these tires were made regulation for 2013.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 15:42**

scotty86 wrote:I'm still trying to get my head round why Mercedes decided that it'd be absolutely no problem for them to test with their current car when everyone with any sort of interest in F1 knows what the rules on that are. What were they thinking?

You honestly think it went like that? Aside from the question if they are right or wrong, Mercedes will have good reasons to believe that what they did was correct. As it looks now, they atleast assumed out of communications with the FIA that it was allowed.

Teams don't do foolish things, even if it looks like that. This was by all means a calculated risk, and for Mercedes the odds seemed good enough.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 16:00**

turbof1 wrote: Teams don't do foolish things, even if it looks like that. This was by all means a calculated risk, and for Mercedes the odds seemed good enough.

With so many chiefs up there in Mercedes I wouldn't be surprised if they did just that - acted foolishly and made a mess.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 16:06**

Merc were given clearance by the FIA. Its not as if Merc made it up on their own.

Perhaps in hindsight they might have thought it too good to be true, but I expect we'd all think FIA confirmation was rather compelling.

What surprises me is the way Merc, FIA and Pirelli had such blinkered conversations. Merc claim innocence of just turning up as instructed but say the arrangements were nothing to do with them. Pirelli say they asked for a car and accepted whatever was provided. The FIA say they asked for equal opportunity but never enquired about how that was going to be assured.

All three seem to be claiming they didn't know the full picture so can't be blamed. Seems to be a "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" scenario.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 16:15**

Dragonfly wrote:With so many chiefs up there in Mercedes I wouldn't be surprised if they did just that - acted foolishly and made a mess.

Not so long ago this was also used as an argument to suggest this was the reason they couldn't make a fast car.
This was of course, dispelled.
Secondly, as Richard outlined, there was clearance for the team to go ahead.

Irrespective of who has how many chiefs, there was a green light from the FIA.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 17:20**

FoxHound wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:With so many chiefs up there in Mercedes I wouldn't be surprised if they did just that - acted foolishly and made a mess.
Not so long ago this was also used as an argument to suggest this was the reason they couldn't make a fast car.
This was of course, dispelled.
Secondly, as Richard outlined, there was clearance for the team to go ahead.

Irrespective of who has how many chiefs, there was a green light from the FIA.

Well to be fair the FIA gave clearance only if all teams could participate. Personally, I've seen no evidence that all the other teams were really given that oppurtunity. All I've heard of was an email from Pirelli that tire testing is allowed in their contract. The sporting regs clearly state that testing a current car during the season is illegal. I would think the FIA expected any tire testing to be done in an older car.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 17:24**

FoxHound wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:
SectorOne wrote:Any rational and logical person would not conclude anything before an official FIA statement.
Stefan posted a statement from FIA.com. Not good enough?

Oh and check the headline at the top of the page.
A tribunal has been called for Mercedes to appear.
No verdict has been met, so SectorOne is correct in saying wait for the official verdict.

It has also been said that Charlie Whiting had given the green light for Mercedes to use the W04. Mercedes will be using the emails as evidence against the FIA effectively. The point in question, is why Mercedes would use the W04 if it did not have the permission to do so.
The emails from the FIA where passed by both Mercedes and Pirelli management's respectively.
Ridiculous situation if true, whereby the governing body effectively will have to explain WHY this happened.

My view is that Mercedes will receive a warning, along with Pirelli or a suspended sentence. The real issue is whether Charlie Whiting keeps his job over this debacle.
Or maybe this is by design to get rid of Pirelli....or even to get shot of Brawn at Mercedes now that Lowe has taken up residence.

The conversation was about Ferrari being in the clear. No one said Merc was guilty.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 17:29**

Pierce89 wrote:Well to be fair the FIA gave clearance only if all teams could participate.

Publicly, this is what the FIA have stated.
However, we are not privy to what has been sent to Mercedes. Just this past hour, Mercedes have issued a statement welcoming the chance to give their side of the story.

http://www.pitpass.com/49200-Mercedes-w ... -tribunal?

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 18:12**

Mercedes reacting rather unimpressed:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107887

Pure confidence or just putting up a brave face?

They do repeat the claim they have proof the FIA allowed it. It'll be difficult even for the Tribunal to put that aside.

Posted: **06 Jun 2013, 21:00**

Interesting tidbit that I either missed or was not publicized is that neither Lewis nor nico wore their official helmets....just blank ones.

Also nico now says he knew exactly what tires he was testing...contrary to pirelli's statements...
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorspor ... 09812.html

Posted: **07 Jun 2013, 00:13**

If Mercedes have confirmation from the FIA then what can actually be done? It's almost like the police saying "yes you can commit this crime, it's ok".

I'd be surprised if they aren't somehow reprimanded, but let's be honest, if it was one of the teams at the rear end of the grid would this much pressure have been applied? I doubt it.

They should just bring back limited in season testing, 0 testing is just silly and won't help anyone.

Posted: **07 Jun 2013, 00:17**

SiLo wrote:If Mercedes have confirmation from the FIA then what can actually be done? It's almost like the police saying "yes you can commit this crime, it's ok".

Mercedes and Pirelli will argue that since Mercedes did not run the test then there is no problem. Pirelli ran the test.The rules state a competing team can't test with 'current/recent' car. Rules do not ban tyre supplier testing with any car they like. That is what Mercedes will argue and they appear to be very confident they have prior permission from the FIa.

Posted: **07 Jun 2013, 01:03**

I have no doubt that FIA will make the correct decision. If I was a Merc Fan, I'd be worried. If they don't find Merc guilty it will because they aren't.

Posted: **07 Jun 2013, 02:37**

Here is quote from Webber

"There's no beating around the bush, it's a nice scenario to go to the venue you have just competed at, that's quite an attractive option to take your race drivers and get a feel for it," he explained.

"There is no [tyre] reference point apparently, that's how Pirelli do their tests, but you would assume the baseline is pretty close to what we are racing. So you're going to get a pretty good idea if something is moving in a good or negative fashion.

"You're not going to learn nothing as a driver.

"It's not probably as powerful for a driver as a normal test because then everything is more transparent, especially from a factory point of view, but I think you can also test some options from a car side.

"From a team perspective that's a lot more powerful than it is for the drivers."

F1technical.net

Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013

Re: Pirelli 2013