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Wazari Ojisan,

You mention configuration. Are you implying that the current configuration is different than what Spec 4 has been?

Different turbo layout, etc etc?

I won't hide that i am one of those that agree that Mclaren must change from Honda to Renault, but i am still hoping that wherever Honda continues in the sport, that they get their engine sorted out. Too much blood and sweat has gone into this program.

By the way, much hasn't been said about the turbine design. I take it this limits your ERS too?
What differences are their between a turbo with only a compressor load vs one with compressor and motor load?

Thanks.

Wazari wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 23:19

As far as Spec 4 HP increase, it will be greater than the 3.4 HP that some seem to think. The reason I believe it will not suffer the bugs as other new versions is that this configuration has been built and tested during the winter and has been continuously being tested and improved since then.

You don't have to answer (obviously), but if it's been in development that long, and it's better than Spec 3.x, why isn't it already in a car ? I can only think that what I've just stated isn't true, so I must be misunderstanding you (e.g. although in dev for a long time, it's still not race-ready in terms of reliability / software / integration with the chassis or gearbox ?) .

bigblue wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 01:19

Wazari wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 23:19

As far as Spec 4 HP increase, it will be greater than the 3.4 HP that some seem to think. The reason I believe it will not suffer the bugs as other new versions is that this configuration has been built and tested during the winter and has been continuously being tested and improved since then.

You don't have to answer (obviously), but if it's been in development that long, and it's better than Spec 3.x, why isn't it already in a car ? I can only think that what I've just stated isn't true, so I must be misunderstanding you (e.g. although in dev for a long time, it's still not race-ready in terms of reliability / software / integration with the chassis or gearbox ?) .

Every time he mentions it I get a feeling that it's because of politics.

Squid wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 02:08

bigblue wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 01:19

Wazari wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 23:19

As far as Spec 4 HP increase, it will be greater than the 3.4 HP that some seem to think. The reason I believe it will not suffer the bugs as other new versions is that this configuration has been built and tested during the winter and has been continuously being tested and improved since then.

You don't have to answer (obviously), but if it's been in development that long, and it's better than Spec 3.x, why isn't it already in a car ? I can only think that what I've just stated isn't true, so I must be misunderstanding you (e.g. although in dev for a long time, it's still not race-ready in terms of reliability / software / integration with the chassis or gearbox ?) .

Every time he mentions it I get a feeling that it's because of politics.

So you think that Honda would ruin their relationship with McLaren and ruin their reputation potentially because of politics? Right...
If it was ready it would be running in the car so obviously it's not ready.

MCL is dangerous, honda know that they want to split after RD era. It is well known that honda always develop more than one spec on the same time with different team of engineer, let say wazari team vs tsubasa team. If they introduced tsubasa spec to MCL thats they will get. It is the same as Williams era of 80s. Honda always reject to give their Best spec on unwanted team. I think it is honda move to get rid of long term contract with MCL. The trump card is their spec 4 of wazari team, and when it failed, their option is to bought another team to be honda works. Another example in moto gp (VDS vs LCR). If you make your opponent flinch, you won. I believe that wazari dont want to give Any details of his engine to MCL as well, unfortunately the engine cannot be tested to STR chasis this year because of regulation

Singabule wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 03:22

MCL is dangerous, honda know that they want to split after RD era. It is well known that honda always develop more than one spec on the same time with different team of engineer, let say wazari team vs tsubasa team. If they introduced tsubasa spec to MCL thats they will get. It is the same as Williams era of 80s. Honda always reject to give their Best spec on unwanted team. I think it is honda move to get rid of long term contract with MCL. The trump card is their spec 4 of wazari team, and when it failed, their option is to bought another team to be honda works. Another example in moto gp (VDS vs LCR). If you make your opponent flinch, you won. I believe that wazari dont want to give Any details of his engine to MCL as well, unfortunately the engine cannot be tested to STR chasis this year because of regulation

So they give the unwanted engine to their works team and keeping to top engine for what?

So how many engine do Ferrari and Mercedes have? It is a dumb idea to have 2 teams within an organisation competing developing the same. The reason it is being done is the technical head is not able to get the 2 teams to work together rather splitting the resources to the two teams. You can explore various ideas in the research level, but once the best combination is decided, there can be only 1 engine project.

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 17:02

carisi2k wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 11:05

Maybe Honda might have 4 cars in 2018 instead of only 2 with the Red Bull Renault relationship apparently at it's end according to reports. The Honda engine might make leaps and bounds with Red Bull technology assistance.

It´s amazing how some people think a company who has never built an engine can improve Honda engineers work

Red Bull have a guy under contract that has built a championship winning F1 engine. That is why we think there is a possibility to improve the Honda engine. From all accounts it has been the MGU-h and energy recovery that has been the problem and not the base engine.

It may not pan out but Red Bull really have no option over the next 3 years.

IIRC, Wasari-san said some time ago that 'spec-4' was/is heavier and has/had higher COG than this current spec, so McL may not be comfortable with what would throw their chassis balance off and will appear to be worse in corners (something they have been boasting about since ... forever).
This, if true, feels like the 'size-zero' dejavu. Again, politics might have been in there somewhere.

carisi2k wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 06:19

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 17:02

carisi2k wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 11:05

Maybe Honda might have 4 cars in 2018 instead of only 2 with the Red Bull Renault relationship apparently at it's end according to reports. The Honda engine might make leaps and bounds with Red Bull technology assistance.

It´s amazing how some people think a company who has never built an engine can improve Honda engineers work

Red Bull have a guy under contract that has built a championship winning F1 engine. That is why we think there is a possibility to improve the Honda engine. From all accounts it has been the MGU-h and energy recovery that has been the problem and not the base engine.

It may not pan out but Red Bull really have no option over the next 3 years.

Who, Illien?

He has been reportedly working with Honda for a while now.

Not so dumb, imagine that the spec 4 has more safety factor than spec 3, let say thicker wall by its design and higher head for bigger jet chamber. Tsubasa team going into production line earlier, and Wazari team later. As results, honda tells MCL xx size, xx height for Tsubasa team and McLaren create chasis According to that spec. With exact 47/53 balance, MCL create good MCL32. What if in june honda told MCL that they will abandon spec 3 and Come with different animal instead? And MCL32 is not good anymore because of lack of ballast? All MCL would say is please improve spec 3 instead. In manufacturer, production is not a real problem, but product design is. Honda only split their designer, not overall production. Unless spec 4 lose it weight and COG to more or less spec 3, they would not introduce it with MCL32 chasis. And now with split to renault, i feel no need to put that engine to spied MCL chasis, and give detail to renault as well. Hasegawa stated clearly their target is renault after all

Singabule wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 07:12

i feel no need to put that engine to spied MCL chasis

Wait what?
Which spied McLaren Chassis?

Gerhardsa wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 07:24

Singabule wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 07:12

i feel no need to put that engine to spied MCL chasis

Wait what?
Which spied McLaren Chassis?

Renault of course

wuzak wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 06:43

carisi2k wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 06:19

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 17:02

It´s amazing how some people think a company who has never built an engine can improve Honda engineers work

Red Bull have a guy under contract that has built a championship winning F1 engine. That is why we think there is a possibility to improve the Honda engine. From all accounts it has been the MGU-h and energy recovery that has been the problem and not the base engine.

It may not pan out but Red Bull really have no option over the next 3 years.

Who, Illien?

He has been reportedly working with Honda for a while now.

I'd like to know that name as well!

carisi2k wrote: ↑

15 Sep 2017, 06:19

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 17:02

carisi2k wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2017, 11:05

Maybe Honda might have 4 cars in 2018 instead of only 2 with the Red Bull Renault relationship apparently at it's end according to reports. The Honda engine might make leaps and bounds with Red Bull technology assistance.

It´s amazing how some people think a company who has never built an engine can improve Honda engineers work

Red Bull have a guy under contract that has built a championship winning F1 engine.

I wonder who´re you talking about, but the fact you didn´t mention his name is enlightening

Guys maybe I'm stupid but what Honda is going to do regarding the R&D and manufacturing of the parts that McLaren was reported to make (batteries and other ERS stuff)? Are they going all in-house for next year?

I can see them having new difficulties next year simply because it's their first time, but maybe those are small parts, I don't know.