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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 17 Sep 2017, 20:28
by fenix4life
ArcticWolfie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 18:50
Alonso's car got holes everywhere and almost no sensors left alive after the crash... but the engine kept working
Maybe that's the solution
Remove all the sensors
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 17 Sep 2017, 21:04
by GoranF1
So if the spec 4 is coming in Suzuka wil they take penalty for it at Sepang?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 17 Sep 2017, 21:50
by maguetox
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 00:41
So now the qualifying mode is oil burning?
Come on guys.
This thread is too much at times.
If the qualy mode is oil burning, so what? Is not what Mercedes is doing for a long time? Honda is playing with the same "methods" as its rivals, at least is what is looking, but more important than if is the oil or not, The Honda ICE is robust enough to support a qualy mode. That is a huge step.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 17 Sep 2017, 21:50
by maguetox
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 00:41
So now the qualifying mode is oil burning?
Come on guys.
This thread is too much at times.
If the qualy mode is oil burning, so what? Is not what Mercedes is doing for a long time? Honda is playing with the same "methods" as its rivals, at least is what is looking, but more important than if is the oil or not, The Honda ICE is robust enough to support a qualy mode. That is a huge step.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 00:54
by PlatinumZealot
Sonador wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 20:20
Is it legal to add oil to the petrol they use?
No but that would make the petrol crap.
Anyway on the oil burning.. It is something that would be invisible out the tailpipe. The oil fumes burn completely in these engines. You know, TJI lean burn burn and all that.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 03:08
by godlameroso
GoranF1 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 21:04
So if the spec 4 is coming in Suzuka wil they take penalty for it at Sepang?
I think they'll take penalties in Suzuka, after Malaysia there's only 5 races left, they'll want to introduce and test it as soon as possible. If it's as big a step forward as they think it is, it'll be relatively straightforward to score points. Then they can focus on getting good results in COTA, Mexico, Brazil, and Abu Dhabi.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 03:14
by Singabule
ArcticWolfie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 18:50
Alonso's car got holes everywhere and almost no sensors left alive after the crash... but the engine kept working
Nearly 50% of honda failure related to sensor and electrical failures, so their Electronic is suck IMO. They need New OEM in 2018 onward.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 03:22
by MrPotatoHead
Singabule wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 03:14
ArcticWolfie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 18:50
Alonso's car got holes everywhere and almost no sensors left alive after the crash... but the engine kept working
Nearly 50% of honda failure related to sensor and electrical failures, so their Electronic is suck IMO. They need New OEM in 2018 onward.
Ummmm you do know that McLaren ECUs power every car on the field right?
McLaren have an entire division dedicated to ECU and wiring.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 03:24
by MrPotatoHead
Sasha wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 18:59
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 15:46
Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 10:40
speaking as the person who introduced to the world the potential of oil burning about 5 years ago on this site ... I ask MrPotatoHead ......
how he thinks oil is burning in the atmosphere but not burning anywhere ahead of the turbine - and so not producing any power boost
Don't get me wrong - a certain amount of oil will always be burnt in any engine and there is potential to extract a small amount of power from it if done properly (very low single digit percentage) - my comments about it are because many here are over exaggerating the difference it makes and acting like oil burn is how Mercedes makes more power in qualifying.
This is especially evident when Mercedes are now making more power than ever using their lowest oil consumption.
Alot of energy in oil and Mercedes fuel is a heavy witch brew.
Indeed. Mercedes have gained about 50HP in 2017 from fuel alone.
That info came first hand from a Mercedes employee.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 03:26
by MrPotatoHead
GoranF1 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 21:04
So if the spec 4 is coming in Suzuka wil they take penalty for it at Sepang?
I can't imagine Honda would want any penalties at all at Suzuka.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 05:12
by godlameroso
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 00:54
Sonador wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 20:20
Is it legal to add oil to the petrol they use?
No but that would make the petrol crap.
Anyway on the oil burning.. It is something that would be invisible out the tailpipe. The oil fumes burn completely in these engines. You know, TJI lean burn burn and all that.
Some would say crap, others would say change it's properties. Good or bad are relative terms, better to deal with cause and effect. In other words what does oil do to gasoline? Why would this feature be harmful, and would it still be harmful with more precise control of the combustion process?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 07:00
by Singabule
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 03:22
Singabule wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 03:14
ArcticWolfie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2017, 18:50
Alonso's car got holes everywhere and almost no sensors left alive after the crash... but the engine kept working
Nearly 50% of honda failure related to sensor and electrical failures, so their Electronic is suck IMO. They need New OEM in 2018 onward.
Ummmm you do know that McLaren ECUs power every car on the field right?
McLaren have an entire division dedicated to ECU and wiring.
Yes i knew that, MCL spec ECU based on Motorola devices. I mean their sensors, inverter, etc that is not a spec one. Regarding wiring loom, please share a little bit it is mainly from combustion related device or ERS one? Or it is only loosened wiring or Jack? What about discussion about providing same spec sensor? It would happen soon right?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 07:27
by Sasha
The smoke during Qual is that Honda just doesn't got the combustion right when they turn the wick up.
(This Pre-Chamber CC is just not working 100% correct so have to run richer than they like or the pistons go kaboom.The whole point of Pre-Chamber CC is to run lean but make more power) I race 7.5cc Hydro and if other people on do would know where this formula is going with lean burn......we make are most power just at the point of melting pistons at 30,000 rpm)
The new Heads/CC/Pistons/Injectors suppose to fix this problem.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 08:48
by Singabule
Sasha wrote: ↑18 Sep 2017, 07:27
The smoke during Qual is that Honda just doesn't got the combustion right when they turn the wick up.
(This Pre-Chamber CC is just not working 100% correct so have to run richer than they like or the pistons go kaboom.The whole point of Pre-Chamber CC is to run lean but make more power) I race 7.5cc Hydro and if other people on do would know where this formula is going with lean burn......we make are most power just at the point of melting pistons at 30,000 rpm)
The new Heads/CC/Pistons/Injectors suppose to fix this problem.
So spec 4 to be expected without this kind of smoke? Why honda cant improve their spec 3 with changing its CC and heads? The update for spec 3 is only focused on its injector? Why? Combustion pressure is too high to be maintained in its current Block?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 18 Sep 2017, 12:23
by techman
i hope honda bring the spec 4. it will good to give it track time and learn more about it and improve on it. honda should quickly work with TR and their gearbox. hopefully gasly willl drive for them.