F1technical.net

PlatinumZealot wrote:Max is lying because the 50hp was the estimate from Monaco. The 37kW that Christian horner flouted. The engine has been heavily upgraded since then.

I agree, if that was true it would mean that this years' Merc is 145 hp more powerful than 2015 Renault.

I really find that hard to believe, especially because both Mercedes are running turned down engine settings lately because of reliablity.

PlatinumZealot wrote:Max is lying because the 50hp was the estimate from Monaco. The 37kW that Christian horner flouted. The engine has been heavily upgraded since then.

There you go again with your single minded comparison. Mercedes' performance isnt static. They introduced updates themselves at SPA 2016. Renault then introduced updates at Singapore 2016. Who is to say that Mercedes update isn't equal to, or bigger then Renaults? You cannot fully disregard Max's comment based on respective engine performance early in the season.

That said, I expect Max to refer to qualifying-mode, and that the deficit in race-output is substantially less.

Well we know that it was mostly reliability that was gained for the Mercedes updates and the lap times confirmed it.
Mercedes had the WCC in the bag and saw no real need to increase power, so I think they saved it for next year.

RedBull and Ferrari were worryingly closer in the races too. One of the videos I like is the Japan on-board comparison between Nico and Kimi. The Ferrari actually was faster in the esses and on the straights but lacked traction out of the corners.

I don't think the drivers are told the power of the engines. They change teams to frequently to give them that information. I believe that is sensitive data that only the engineers and management know.
Max talks too much to be told what power renault; worse he is so marketable, you can't really give him info that he can switch to other teams with.

Jos and Max tuned their own engines during their karting days. Implying that max has no knowledge about these things is garbage.

I'm not sure what tuning a kart engine years ago has to do with a modern F1 hybrid powerplant.

PhillipM wrote:I'm not sure what tuning a kart engine years ago has to do with a modern F1 hybrid powerplant.

I'm sure you can venture a guess though. Someone that is able to do that is probably quite able to judge current engine qualities such as power.

There's no need for this.

hurril wrote:

PhillipM wrote:I'm not sure what tuning a kart engine years ago has to do with a modern F1 hybrid powerplant.

I'm sure you can venture a guess though. Someone that is able to do that is probably quite able to judge current engine qualities such as power.

There's no need for this.

Really? I also race and tune 2 strokes and I'm 3/4 of the way through an aeronautical engineering degree. Obviously I should have an eye dyno to go along with my eye cfd.

I'm quite sure Horner told Verstappen "we're 50 hp down" because that was the surest way to get it in the news.

Godius wrote:Jos and Max tuned their own engines during their karting days. Implying that max has no knowledge about these things is garbage.

Turning a few screws and installing a bunch a parts doesn't mean anything. Too many variables in F1 to extrapolate and Max only been two years in F1 in new regs to boot.

Godius wrote:Jos and Max tuned their own engines during their karting days. Implying that max has no knowledge about these things is garbage.

Though your point is completely irrelevant, even if Max had an intimate understanding of these engines it would still be impossible for him to know the power output without being told or by attempting to calculate it like any number of other people have done.

Both of you are making a lot of assumption without backing it up with a single fact. It is silly, really.

There are numberous post-Spanish GP interviews where Max described how well he knew the characteristics of the Ferrari hybrid system compared to the Renault hybrid system and used his hybrid experience to his advantage to defend against Raikkonen. Of course he hasn't driven the Mercedes hybrid yet but since Spain he has competitively raced against them and the GPS-data gives engineers a lot of info regarding were time is lost and what the cause of that is. You can easily make a very accurate guess what the deficit against the Merc system is.

He said the Ferrari menu was easier to navigate. Not sure if he went as fas as knowing the characteristics of his 2015 Ferrari engine versus Raikkonens 2016.. I think you Maxie fans are stretching things too far.

PlatinumZealot wrote:He said the Ferrari menu was easier to navigate. Not sure if he went as fas as knowing the characteristics of his 2015 Ferrari engine versus Raikkonens 2016.. I think you Maxie fans are stretching things too far.

I'm not a Mad Max fan but I think some of you are underestimating the current crop of drivers, they can usually detect subtle wing changes so why wouldn't they be able to detect subtle power unit differences?

When they asked teamboss Vasseur if Renault will show up with a split turbo he told the journalist "i don't think copying other teams is the right thing" and then told that Renault have their own concept..

IMO that means no split Turbo. And to be honest, i think that's bad news...

yener wrote:When they asked teamboss Vasseur if Renault will show up with a split turbo he told the journalist "i don't think copying other teams is the right thing" and then told that Renault have their own concept..

IMO that means no split Turbo. And to be honest, i think that's bad news...

Split turbo is unlikely to be a silver bullet. the Merc powered cars are noticeably fatter around the the engine cover than the Renault and Ferrari powered cars so I personally think I'd rather have the Renault packaging if I were designing an F1 car.