Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 01:05
Page 768 of 1336
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 01:18
wrongPlatinumZealot wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 00:10Sounds like castor oil.Sasha wrote: ↑27 Sep 2017, 08:45Fuel in pre-chamber, oil(Fumes) in main chamber and do remember that the oil MB uses isn't nothing like 0-20W you use in your car or any other racing oil used in the World.
Back in the early 90's I raced RC Outriggers and I used a top-secret oil that we used in F1.Most people used castor oil with mix rate of 20-25%,others used Synthetic oil with mix rate of 15-17%.The oil I was using was at a mix rate of 8% and the only negative was it was hard to clean up,turned everything it touched yellow.Bottom-line is their are some crazy oils out there.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 04:36
I think some people here are just blinded by newfound McLaren hate for giving up on Honda and overlook just how unreliable the engines have been this year.Mudflap wrote: ↑27 Sep 2017, 22:52They need to accumulate 5 races worth of running on any engine regardless of what spec that is.MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑27 Sep 2017, 22:12Actually there is ZERO logic in NOT running it this year.
They need all the miles in car they can get. This much is obvious after this year.
Anyone who thinks otherwise - Well.
As it stands I don't think they have a single ICE with more than 2 races on it (and it looks even worse for TC/MGUH)
Good luck getting it to last 3 times longer next year.
They need a Major improvement for next year which starts with getting every single mile they can run on the track with the newest stuff they have planned for next season. Or they will be in the same place next winter testing as they were this winter.
Hopefully Honda can make the most of the rest of this season.
The following images says a lot.
People also read too much into the Toro Rosso element. TR engines do not have any indication on Red Bull main team engines.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 07:13
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 08:39
Dieselization?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 11:22
Are you talking about Torro rosso using different engines to Red Bull in the past. If so then yes you are correct but Renault have stated that 2018 will be the last year they supply Red Bull an engine and so with no engines available from Mercedes and Ferrari there really isn't anywhere for Red Bull to go except to Honda in 2019. Unless somehow Porsche can magically build a competitive F1 engine in a year it looks like Red Bull will be using Honda engines in 2019 unless they quit the sport.MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 04:36People also read too much into the Toro Rosso element. TR engines do not have any indication on Red Bull main team engines.
I would also say that if the spec 4.0 unit proves half decent to be competitive against the Renault (I am not saying it will be) in 2018 then maybe Red Bull will pursue breaking up with Renault a year sooner so as to have 2 teams developing the Honda. The spec 4.0 will undoubtedly be at milton keynes on the red bull simulator (which both red bull and torro rosso use) since the announcement in Singapore. This will give red bull an idea as to whether or not a move could be done in 2018 or if continued development throughout 2018 is needed with torro rosso.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 11:34
As for Mclaren I have never been a fan of theirs. I have always been a Ferrari, Williams and Red Bull guy. Hopefully the Honda engine will be better with the tools available at Red Bull.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 14:42
If Renault don't supply Red Bull in 2019 (A big IF - they said they wouldn't the last year or two also btw) then Red Bull might be forced to go to Honda for 2 years. But I'm not convinced yet.carisi2k wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 11:22Are you talking about Torro rosso using different engines to Red Bull in the past. If so then yes you are correct but Renault have stated that 2018 will be the last year they supply Red Bull an engine and so with no engines available from Mercedes and Ferrari there really isn't anywhere for Red Bull to go except to Honda in 2019. Unless somehow Porsche can magically build a competitive F1 engine in a year it looks like Red Bull will be using Honda engines in 2019 unless they quit the sport.MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 04:36People also read too much into the Toro Rosso element. TR engines do not have any indication on Red Bull main team engines.
I would also say that if the spec 4.0 unit proves half decent to be competitive against the Renault (I am not saying it will be) in 2018 then maybe Red Bull will pursue breaking up with Renault a year sooner so as to have 2 teams developing the Honda. The spec 4.0 will undoubtedly be at milton keynes on the red bull simulator (which both red bull and torro rosso use) since the announcement in Singapore. This will give red bull an idea as to whether or not a move could be done in 2018 or if continued development throughout 2018 is needed with torro rosso.
After that you'll see Red Bull run a new engine fore 2021 as they are already saying they are happy to do this week.
Anyway - back on topic. Let's hope Alonso can get through to Q3 and have a fantastic race this weekend.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 14:45
A lot of people here seem very confused by these engines for sure.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 16:51
If we look at the regulations you can't help but wonder why they put a lower limit on octane, but not an upper limit. Can there be some benefit of having lower than 87 octane?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 18:00
Never thought about it, but that makes sense. Lower octane ratings mean the fuel ignites with lower compression than do the fuels with higher octane ratings. If all of this new technology centers around pre-ignition and full burning of the fuel, then you would want lower octane gas, no?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 19:15
The reason is to stop people from running Diesel like operation.godlameroso wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 16:51If we look at the regulations you can't help but wonder why they put a lower limit on octane, but not an upper limit. Can there be some benefit of having lower than 87 octane?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 19:16
That is not what Octane means.kptaylor wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 18:00Never thought about it, but that makes sense. Lower octane ratings mean the fuel ignites with lower compression than do the fuels with higher octane ratings. If all of this new technology centers around pre-ignition and full burning of the fuel, then you would want lower octane gas, no?
Octane is the fuel's resistance to detonation. The higher the octane the higher the (dynamic) compression you can generally run.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 20:15
Just saying it sounds similar to castor oil.. it varnishes parts too.. never said it was..Sasha wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 01:18wrongPlatinumZealot wrote: ↑28 Sep 2017, 00:10Sounds like castor oil.Sasha wrote: ↑27 Sep 2017, 08:45Fuel in pre-chamber, oil(Fumes) in main chamber and do remember that the oil MB uses isn't nothing like 0-20W you use in your car or any other racing oil used in the World.
Back in the early 90's I raced RC Outriggers and I used a top-secret oil that we used in F1.Most people used castor oil with mix rate of 20-25%,others used Synthetic oil with mix rate of 15-17%.The oil I was using was at a mix rate of 8% and the only negative was it was hard to clean up,turned everything it touched yellow.Bottom-line is their are some crazy oils out there.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 28 Sep 2017, 20:49
While searching for some other things, I found this article, it's from RE. Maybe someone finds it interesting
Back to my first search: anybody can enlighten me what the compression rates are in the current Honda engine? North of 18:1?
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... -revealed/The first prototype engine was run in the back of a development car at Mugello in September 2004, so the team could gather data on performance and the effects of the increased vibrations caused by a V8 on the surrounding systems. The engine development project team was run under Kazuo Sakurahara, who revealed to RE: ‘The most worrying problem would be a level of engine vibration which the design team had never experienced before.’
Honda RA806E
The vibration issue could potentially have lead to a range of problems that would keep both the engine and chassis design teams busy.
Back to my first search: anybody can enlighten me what the compression rates are in the current Honda engine? North of 18:1?