F1technical.net

strad wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2018, 01:44

1967-512-Ferrari-V12
http://www.stradsplace.com/photos/1967- ... ri-V12.jpg

"There is nothing like a smell of burnt ignition wires and melted plastic fuel lines in the morning..."

From the days when gearboxes were shorter than engines:

Sure wouldn't have wanted to be the guy that had to weld up those spaghetti headers in those days.

Along the lines of "How did they ever make those headers?!?", I submit the Gurney Eagle F1 car (Posted at least once elsewhere.), with headers by Phil Remington. These were made by the 'filled with oil-soaked sand and then capped, then mandrel bending' method. That description doesn't begin to do the process justice. These were not made from sections and then ground and buffed to visually remove the weld beads. These are single piece tubes from the header flange to the collector. I really can't imagine how it was done. Even checking a bend seems impossible, with a length of straight pipe on either end, and other pipes already in place? I'll be in the bar...

While I don't doubt that the headers were mandrel bent as you say you can see the clamps the connect the headers to the long straight collectors.

Greetings Strad!

Having a slip-joint with a spring connector at the collector is the norm, even on modern F1 cars. The Ferrari in the post before has them too. On turbo engines they go with a bellows...

Here's a Honda F1 header with a slip-joint at the collector and connectors that have some spring. You can also see that this header was made from sections of tube welded together, which is the norm today with the super thin Inconel tubing they use:




PS, these are available at Race To The Finish for 295 pounds... (Since I stole their photo a plug seemed merited.)

Those headers are also from the days when they would step the diameter of the tubing for wave tuning. Which may explain some of the welds. Are you saying multiple continuous pipe bends could not be achieved in thin-wall Inconel?

e36jon wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2018, 18:52

Along the lines of "How did they ever make those headers?!?", I submit the Gurney Eagle F1 car (Posted at least once elsewhere.), with headers by Phil Remington. These were made by the 'filled with oil-soaked sand and then capped, then mandrel bending' method. That description doesn't begin to do the process justice. These were not made from sections and then ground and buffed to visually remove the weld beads. These are single piece tubes from the header flange to the collector. I really can't imagine how it was done. Even checking a bend seems impossible, with a length of straight pipe on either end, and other pipes already in place? I'll be in the bar...

Header workmanship is outstanding and of course the Eagle is gorgeous. I assume the chrome on the headers is over-restoration?

I assume the chrome on the headers is over-restoration?

Wouldn't doubt it. Chrome would add weight.. or would paint weigh more?

No, I'm too cynical by half. Here's a picture from (claimed) 1967 that shows chromed exhaust headers. The mechanic pants/shoes confirm the time period. So the headers were chromed on some of the Eagle cars.

I think of the Eagle F1 crew being not unlike Penske in the CART days: No one was going to call them scruffy...

Roon: You would think with an engineering degree I could break down the factors of mandrel bending Inconel, but I can't. Ask me about draft angles for injection molded parts though... I'm working off of a vague memory that Inconel is much harder and less ductile than either stainless or other steels that might be used for headers, so cracking during forming is an issue. But then, how do they come to have mandrel bent sections to then cut up into pieces and re-weld into headers? I leave it to others to put this to bed.

bill shoe wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2018, 01:40

No, I'm too cynical by half. Here's a picture from (claimed) 1967 that shows chromed exhaust headers. The mechanic pants/shoes confirm the time period. So the headers were chromed on some of the Eagle cars.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/9a/56/cc9a ... o-cars.jpg

You sure they are chromed, and not just natural metal?

wuzak wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2018, 05:58

bill shoe wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2018, 01:40

No, I'm too cynical by half. Here's a picture from (claimed) 1967 that shows chromed exhaust headers. The mechanic pants/shoes confirm the time period. So the headers were chromed on some of the Eagle cars.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/9a/56/cc9a ... o-cars.jpg

You sure they are chromed, and not just natural metal?

I will say they are shiny. Very shiny. Yes could be polished metal.

the full 1967 car no AA104 had a titanium exhaust system and a lot of titanium elsewhere
and a magnesium alloy monocoque with the distinctive close riveting (total 88 lb lighter than the first cars in 67)
driven by DSG it was the most successful car
103 and 102 were then fitted with titanium parts but had conventional monocoques
DSG won earlier in 67 at Brands Hatch in 102 - using (farm-grade) AgriCastrol oil (I knew the Castrol man)

the exhaust systems were all shiny like chromium plate

This was posted on reddit today: