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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 17:38
by GhostF1
Vandoorne doing well. Noticeably different engine sound as well, much more rasp. Speed trap of 307km/h on the back straight. Matching Renault engines at the moment, Verstappen and Ricciardo hitting the same speed, currently 0.6 off of Verstappen.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 18:31
by Sayeman
Saw Vandoorne clocking 312.5 km/h....but the car is shaking at 6th gear he says..Hope the dreaded shaking issue hasn't returned with the update.
Whats up with Ferdi's car?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 19:13
by Joseki
Alonso had the usual "hydraulic leak".
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 19:54
by ArcticWolfie
Joseki wrote: ↑20 Oct 2017, 19:13
Alonso had the usual "hydraulic leak".
Didn't seem engine related though.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 21:03
by 63l8qrrfy6
So Autosport said Stoffel's engine had too many miles and had to be changed. He couldn't have had more than 3 races on that.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 23:52
by ArcticWolfie
Mudflap wrote: ↑20 Oct 2017, 21:03
So Autosport said Stoffel's engine had too many miles and had to be changed. He couldn't have had more than 3 races on that.
This ICE lasted since Monza if my memory serves me right, so 4 weekends. He didn't finish @ Monza but that was due to the MGU-H which seems to hold out finally.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 21 Oct 2017, 21:57
by fellowhoodlums
Any information as to what update Vandoorne's PU has?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 22 Oct 2017, 06:28
by makecry
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 76622.html
Asked if he could feel more power through the upgrade, the Belgian replies süffisant. "It was really impressive." To postpone shortly thereafter. "In the car, I do not feel any difference." Honda race director Yusuke Hasegawa did not talk long and agreed to the GP2 champion of 2015 small. "We see in the data that the engine has more power. But we have to be honest that this is not enough for the driver to really feel."
It is said that the new engine brings in about three horsepower.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 22 Oct 2017, 18:31
by diffuser
etusch wrote: ↑22 Oct 2017, 10:26
makecry wrote: ↑22 Oct 2017, 06:28
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 76622.html
Asked if he could feel more power through the upgrade, the Belgian replies süffisant. "It was really impressive." To postpone shortly thereafter. "In the car, I do not feel any difference." Honda race director Yusuke Hasegawa did not talk long and agreed to the GP2 champion of 2015 small. "We see in the data that the engine has more power. But we have to be honest that this is not enough for the driver to really feel."
It is said that the new engine brings in about three horsepower.
So from the start of 4 hp drivers start to feel additional power ?
"Suffisant" doesn't translate to "Really impressive" it means "enough". At any rate, their biggest problem is HOW LONG they can power the mgu-k. The more full throttle time their is on a single lap the further behind they are.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 23 Oct 2017, 00:25
by makecry
GhostF1 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2017, 00:14
With Vandoorne, they kept all the other components from the previous PU, only the ICE was brand new, a shame about the MGU-H again, probably couldn't handle being moved after operation.
With Alonso.... It is upsetting, especially as it looked like the engine was finally becoming reliable again. Do we know official cause of failure yet?
I'm assuming it will be an entirely new power unit required, components and all, just introduce Spec 4 for Mexico, just do it for the love of god.
It was MGU-H for Fernando. Ted said on the notebook.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 23 Oct 2017, 14:41
by Thunder
Ooooook we all knew it was coming. There has been way to much OT chatter on this Subforum here lately (and especially in this Thread).
So from now on the PU Threads will be more closely moderated and i started with a quick and dirty clean up of this one. 
Remember this Thread should focus on the mechanical Side of the PU (including speculation with a solid technical Background of Future Developments of course), NOTwhen Spec 4 will be released, who has the most dnf's, if RB helps TR with Integration, what Renault does or what PU TR will run in the Post Season Test....
There are Team Threads for such posts:
McLaren Honda Team Thread: https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... start=6705
Scuderia Toro Rosso Team Therad: https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... &start=240
Speed Trap figures (as a main Subject of the Post) also don't belong in here. There are however slight exceptions. If for instance someone was able to point out that Vandoorne and Alonso had different types of PU, but otherwise same set up and aerodynamic profiles, than that would be acceptable as we can scrap all significant variables in that case. Just don't Post "Verstappen 322, Vandoorne 310 
"
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 24 Oct 2017, 00:04
by 1158
Thanks for cleaning this up.
Have we heard if it was a shaft issue again? I know Honda was having issues with a new design for the MGU-H shaft so they reverted to the previous design. I wonder if they were trying a revised version of the new shaft. VAN lost 2 MGU-H over the weekend I believe and of course ALO lost his in the race.
If it was a shaft failure that part can be replaced without a penalty, but it can't be done at the track.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 24 Oct 2017, 03:27
by wuzak
1158 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2017, 00:04
Thanks for cleaning this up.
Have we heard if it was a shaft issue again? I know Honda was having issues with a new design for the MGU-H shaft so they reverted to the previous design. I wonder if they were trying a revised version of the new shaft. VAN lost 2 MGU-H over the weekend I believe and of course ALO lost his in the race.
If it was a shaft failure that part can be replaced without a penalty, but it can't be done at the track.
The MGUH shaft or the shaft connecting the MGUH to the turbo?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 24 Oct 2017, 05:48
by ringo
It begs the question what processes are they using to bring developments onto the track. It cannot be "try until you get it right". They must have some rigorous testing they do before they approve a part for track use. It's shocking if they lose a mguh shaft every weekend.
After 1 shaft failure the process should have been improved to prevent that from happening again or so often.
But i await the details on this.
Overall though i feel the engine has imrpoved during the race. Its still slow on the straights but the drivability seems to be improved.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 24 Oct 2017, 07:19
by Hino
ringo wrote: ↑24 Oct 2017, 05:48
It begs the question what processes are they using to bring developments onto the track. It cannot be "try until you get it right". They must have some rigorous testing they do before they approve a part for track use. It's shocking if they lose a mguh shaft every weekend.
After 1 shaft failure the process should have been improved to prevent that from happening again or so often.
But i await the details on this.
Overall though i feel the engine has imrpoved during the race. Its still slow on the straights but the drivability seems to be improved.
IIRC, Honda outsourced a supplier to produce the MGU-H shafts and blamed botched machining for the failures. Honda then approached Honda aviation dept (jet engines) to manufacturer those shafts. So it seems they still have a problem.