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Re: TD039
Posted: 09 Jul 2022, 13:14
by N21
Whenever any team principal says their team does not worry about a new technical directive and that their car is compliant, usually the opposite is true.
I am really curious what will come of this
Re: Red Bull RB18
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 10:42
by CaribouBread
This slot is interesting in that Toto is alleging that some teams might be using "skids that disappear" inside the plank. This slot doesn't line up with this skid thing being implied but interesting nonetheless.
"It is suspected that some teams have cleverly split up the skid blocks, which protect the holes where the FIA plank thickness measurements are taken, in to separate sections.
There is a main skid block that runs around the majority of the hole, but then a more rearward section that moves up and down independently within the plank to become fully enclosed and protected if the car hits the ground.
By disappearing up inside the plank, this section does not get worn down as the rest of the floor hits the track – so remains at its original thickness throughout to be fully compliant with the previous 9mm depth checks that are conducted by the FIA after races."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/disa ... 74/?nrt=54
Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 10:43
by zibby43
As I mentioned a week ago, it looks like it’s not necessarily flexible floors that are at issue, but at least 2 unique “features” of planks that are being exploited.
These features will be prohibited by Belgium.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/disa ... /10335974/
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 10:56
by djones
So the floors are flexing and they are also manipulating the skid blocks (allowing them to move in order to prevent wear).
My biggest confusion in all of this is why no protests. It is straight-up cheating.... cheating other teams out of points and money.
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 11:31
by 101FlyingDutchman
djones wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 10:56
So the floors are flexing and they are also manipulating the skid blocks (allowing them to move in order to prevent wear).
My biggest confusion in all of this is why no protests. It is straight-up cheating.... cheating other teams out of points and money.
Presumably as most teams are at it? And presumably because as usual any F1 team will look for a competitive advantage by interpreting the rules/finding loopholes where possible. Because that’s how you can quickly vault your team up to the front of the pack.
It would be disingenuous to suggest that it’s only one or two teams doing it. Up and down the paddock they’re looking for these little gems.
Re: Red Bull RB18
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 11:43
by ab_f1
CaribouBread wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 10:42
This slot is interesting in that Toto is alleging that some teams might be using "skids that disappear" inside the plank. This slot doesn't line up with this skid thing being implied but interesting nonetheless.
"It is suspected that some teams have cleverly split up the skid blocks, which protect the holes where the FIA plank thickness measurements are taken, in to separate sections.
There is a main skid block that runs around the majority of the hole, but then a more rearward section that moves up and down independently within the plank to become fully enclosed and protected if the car hits the ground.
By disappearing up inside the plank, this section does not get worn down as the rest of the floor hits the track – so remains at its original thickness throughout to be fully compliant with the previous 9mm depth checks that are conducted by the FIA after races."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/disa ... 74/?nrt=54
I would think that Flexi floor was grey area because of the tests not covering it.
However isn't the purpose of disappearing skid is to defeat the tests?
It would then fall in same area where RB fuel flow defeat device was and caused them disqualification.
There is no mention that it is Red Bull but whichever team it is should have been investigated.
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:08
by Big Tea
djones wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 10:56
So the floors are flexing and they are also manipulating the skid blocks (allowing them to move in order to prevent wear).
My biggest confusion in all of this is why no protests. It is straight-up cheating.... cheating other teams out of points and money.
I am struggling to follow the bit that says the skid blocks 'retract' to stop wear and the bit that says the 'plank material ' retracts to prevent wear. If either one is removed, the other gets the wear, so if they are both 'retractable, what 'scrapes' the track and takes the wear?
Re: Red Bull RB18
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:21
by Tzk
CaribouBread wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 10:42
This slot is interesting in that Toto is alleging that some teams might be using "skids that disappear" inside the plank. This slot doesn't line up with this skid thing being implied but interesting nonetheless.
I'd rather say that the big hole in the RB18 floor is for maintenance purposes. You can see that there is a step around it where you can possibly fit a carbon panel to close it off before the plank gets attached.
Also have a look at rule 3.5.9 a), air passing between the floor and the plank is explicitely forbidden.
CaribouBread wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 10:42
There is a main skid block that runs around the majority of the hole, but then a more rearward section that moves up and down independently within the plank to become fully enclosed and protected if the car hits the ground.
THAT is the real issue if teams to it. I guess the teams which run their cars very low are the most suspicious ones to fall foul of this. So Mercs (however Toto stated that they don't), Ferrari and maybe some other team?
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:26
by Tzk
Big Tea wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:08
I am struggling to follow the bit that says the skid blocks 'retract' to stop wear and the bit that says the 'plank material ' retracts to prevent wear.
only a part of the skid block moves up. So the majority of the skid block (which isn't measured for wear by FIA!) takes the wear and only the part which is measured for wear will move up. Quite smart to say the least
That happens when the FIA states the very spefic way of checking and doesn't just check the whole skid block... The latter would've prevented this right from the start.
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:30
by Big Tea
Tzk wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:26
Big Tea wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:08
I am struggling to follow the bit that says the skid blocks 'retract' to stop wear and the bit that says the 'plank material ' retracts to prevent wear.
only a part of the skid block moves up. So the majority of the skid block (which isn't measured for wear by FIA!) takes the wear and only the part which is measured for wear will move up. Quite smart to say the least
That happens when the FIA states the very spefic way of checking and doesn't just check the whole skid block... The latter would've prevented this right from the start.
Thanks, makes sense now
Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:36
by Wouter
.
Thanks for the great article, but why posting this in the RBR topic?
There is a topic for all kinds of news about F1.
viewtopic.php?t=30165
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:44
by f1jcw
Tzk wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:26
Big Tea wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:08
I am struggling to follow the bit that says the skid blocks 'retract' to stop wear and the bit that says the 'plank material ' retracts to prevent wear.
only a part of the skid block moves up. So the majority of the skid block (which isn't measured for wear by FIA!) takes the wear and only the part which is measured for wear will move up. Quite smart to say the least
That happens when the FIA states the very spefic way of checking and doesn't just check the whole skid block... The latter would've prevented this right from the start.
But this isn’t a grey area, this is double fuel tank out and out cheating
How are teams not getting DSQ
Are the rules now a feee for all.
WTF is a actually going on
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:47
by RZS10
Taken from this article
‘Disappearing’ skid blocks a part of F1’s flexi floor tricks
Toto Wolff [...] confirmed [...] that two tricks had emerged [...]
“[...] Some teams have skids that actually disappear when the car hits the bottom [...] that is clearly against the regulations.
Then the second thing is a plank that can deflect [...] you gain some performance there too.
“[...]he first one [skid tricks] is going to disappear for Spa [...] And the second one is going to be clarified in next year's regulations.”
It seems that whoever is running a flexing plank (the very thing which was discussed and deemed to be illegal but not put into the regs by the FIA prior to the season) used their influence to get the FIA to delay any measures to next year, whilst those who use other tricks were not as successful.
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:50
by f1jcw
RZS10 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2022, 12:47
Taken from this article
‘Disappearing’ skid blocks a part of F1’s flexi floor tricks
Toto Wolff [...] confirmed [...] that two tricks had emerged [...]
“[...] Some teams have skids that actually disappear when the car hits the bottom [...] that is clearly against the regulations.
Then the second thing is a plank that can deflect [...] you gain some performance there too.
“[...]he first one [skid tricks] is going to disappear for Spa [...] And the second one is going to be clarified in next year's regulations.”
It seems that whoever is running a flexing plank (the very thing which was discussed and deemed to be illegal but not put into the regs by the FIA prior to the season) used their influence to get the FIA to delay any measures to next year, whilst those who use other tricks were not as successful.
How did Bar running double tanks not get the opportunity to run it all year, this all stinks very badly.
The skid plates be delayed. Ban them now! It’s not a grey area it is cheating.
Re: TD039
Posted: 10 Jul 2022, 12:51
by 214270
Some adaptation will be required even if it’s just the skid blocks (Ferrari have confirmed); probably a satisfactory middle-ground for all parties.