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Hi Wazari

The Mercedes can't be 10% more efficient than the Ferrari and the Renault isn't a more efficient unit than the Ferrari.

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 07:38

Hi Wazari

The Mercedes can't be 10% more efficient than the Ferrari and the Renault isn't a more efficient unit than the Ferrari.

It can't? Are those figures about fuel efficiency or more about deployment strategy and harvesting? Those are the fuel loads averaged over the last 15 races including Brazil. I don't have the figures for the first few races.

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 08:22

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 07:38

Hi Wazari

The Mercedes can't be 10% more efficient than the Ferrari and the Renault isn't a more efficient unit than the Ferrari.

It can't? Are those figures about fuel efficiency or more about deployment strategy and harvesting? Those are the fuel loads averaged over the last 15 races including Brazil. I don't have the figures for the first few races.

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

10 more kilos for Ferrari?!
That will be HUGE for race-pace.

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 09:03

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 08:22

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 07:38

Hi Wazari

The Mercedes can't be 10% more efficient than the Ferrari and the Renault isn't a more efficient unit than the Ferrari.

It can't? Are those figures about fuel efficiency or more about deployment strategy and harvesting? Those are the fuel loads averaged over the last 15 races including Brazil. I don't have the figures for the first few races.

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

K deployment per lap is limited by regs.

Mudflap wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 14:41

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 09:03

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

K deployment per lap is limited by regs.

Yes, the K is limited to 161bhp. To clarify, the more energy the MGU-H can harvest, (up to the 161bhp which is the MGU-K limit) the more it can send to the MGU-K. Unfortunately the MGU-H isn't efficient enough to do the this, however ideally it'll harvest a little more than 161bhp so that after losses/transfer to the ES, the MGU-K receives/outputs 161bhp.

Mudflap wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 14:41

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 09:03

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 08:22

It can't? Are those figures about fuel efficiency or more about deployment strategy and harvesting? Those are the fuel loads averaged over the last 15 races including Brazil. I don't have the figures for the first few races.

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

K deployment per lap is limited by regs.

Not when stated like that, no. "Withdrawals" from the ES is limited but you are free to run the K all the time at 120kW.

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 00:46

Speaking of fuel efficiency, I averaged the starting fuel loads for some teams for the last 15 races and came up with these figures:

McLaren 103.7 kilos, Ferrari 101.8 kilos, RBR 100.5 kilos, Mercedes 91.2 kilos, That's a huge advantage.

It will be sabe to assume that a percentage of those 13.7% actual difference between Honda and Mercedes will be "fixed" with Spec 4?

Is obvious the Mercedes PU is more efficient but what percentage of that efficiency is due to the Petronas fuel, that is the big question.

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 00:46

Speaking of fuel efficiency, I averaged the starting fuel loads for some teams for the last 15 races and came up with these figures:

McLaren 103.7 kilos, Ferrari 101.8 kilos, RBR 100.5 kilos, Mercedes 91.2 kilos, That's a huge advantage.

HCSI?

ziggy wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 18:36

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 00:46

Speaking of fuel efficiency, I averaged the starting fuel loads for some teams for the last 15 races and came up with these figures:

McLaren 103.7 kilos, Ferrari 101.8 kilos, RBR 100.5 kilos, Mercedes 91.2 kilos, That's a huge advantage.

HCSI?

What if the Mercedes is more efficient aerodynamically? Run enough downforce with less drag and hence less energy requirement.

I think you have to look at the whole system, not just bits and pieces. I pretty sure that’s how Mercedes operate.

The difference in fuel usage over a race shows that Mercedes is on such a level of performance with their PU that they can work on the trade-off between engine power and fuel weight. The rest of the teams probably need as much fuel as possible over a race to come close to Mercedes in terms of engine power.

Moreover, this also partly explains the increase of performance when Mercedes is using their qualy mode, in which they consume as much fuel as possible (within the fuel flow rate limit off course).

NL_Fer wrote: ↑

22 Nov 2017, 22:06

roon wrote: ↑

22 Nov 2017, 20:45

NL_Fer wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2017, 19:05

It is suggested that Mercedes runs 25-30:1 AF-ratio. That must be cooler than stoich. Unless they use the excess air to burn oil

Source? (Not saying you're wrong.)

Mercedes PU topic, maybe even Godlameroso himself.

I may make out there statements but I'm not that crazy.

Mudflap wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 14:41

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 09:03

Wazari wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 08:22

It can't? Are those figures about fuel efficiency or more about deployment strategy and harvesting? Those are the fuel loads averaged over the last 15 races including Brazil. I don't have the figures for the first few races.

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

K deployment per lap is limited by regs.

Technically it's ES deployment/lap that's limited by the regulations. Although the MGU-H could in theory directly power the MGU-K through the CE, bypassing the ES, I don't think anyone actually does this. If you could get it to work, you could power the MGU-K by 50-60kW directly from the H, and only require 60kW from the ES, which means you could in theory deploy 66.6 seconds instead of 33 @ 120kW.

godlameroso wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 21:13

Mudflap wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 14:41

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 09:03

You guys know way more than me on all matters engine/PU related, but I would have thought fuel efficiency (instantaneous) and harvesting (ERS-H) were related. The more energy the MGU-H can harvest, the more it can send to the MGU-K.

K deployment per lap is limited by regs.

Technically it's ES deployment/lap that's limited by the regulations. Although the MGU-H could in theory directly power the MGU-K through the CE, bypassing the ES, I don't think anyone actually does this. If you could get it to work, you could power the MGU-K by 50-60kW directly from the H, and only require 60kW from the ES, which means you could in theory deploy 66.6 seconds instead of 33 @ 120kW.

I don't remember where I have readen. It was saying "generally they send mgu-h harvesting directly to mgu-k. Only Honda doesn't do that." Maybe I have readen here.

Blaze1 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2017, 07:38

Hi Wazari

The Mercedes can't be 10% more efficient than the Ferrari and the Renault isn't a more efficient unit than the Ferrari.

Oh yes.. it is not about Thermal efficiency alone.. but fuel mileage.. very different metric.. How you get better fuel mileage is all about race management. Normally cars at the front will need less fuel during the race. When you beat your rival to the punch - he has to sit back in the hot air... he needs more cooling.. he has to turn down his boost.. he has to run richer. But at the same time he is losing time in the corners so he needs more power on the straights to make up for it, he might have to overtake a few cars.While you out front can cruise after the first stint and benefit as the car gets lighter and even more fuel efficient. You get the picture.