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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 11:47
by djos
Greg Locock wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 11:20
strad wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 00:53
Well,,, Then we will all be waiting for the pictures when you shell out that kind of bread for any EV.
That's a whole lot on money no matter how you look at it. I said it was nice, but I don't foresee many people popping that kind of cash for either model.
Let's face it, even $50000 is fantasy money for a car for most people, and I see no sign that the demographic here is spectacularly rich for a first world hobbyist forum. I happen to drive a car that costs that much, but that's via my employer, I wouldn't pay anything like that unsubsidised (I lease it for $240 per month).
I’m in a similar position of not being able to afford an equivalent EV to our family car (Hyundai Santa Fe), the cost gap is already shrinking tho.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.cnb ... uyers.html
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 11:56
by izzy
prices are coming down aren't they. Here's an article about the 2020 Chevy Bolt, only US$26k, he loves it, talks about the almost zero maintenance etc etc
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/08/th ... ame-again/
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:02
by djos
Choice is a huge issue in Australia, it’s Tesla, garbage Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ionic and that’s it afaik.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:08
by izzy
djos wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:02
Choice is a huge issue in Australia, it’s Tesla, garbage Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ionic and that’s it afaik.
We can't get the Bolt in the UK either
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:16
by djos
izzy wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:08
djos wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:02
Choice is a huge issue in Australia, it’s Tesla, garbage Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ionic and that’s it afaik.
We can't get the Bolt in the UK either
Doesn’t the UK have a handful of other EV’s on the market tho?
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:48
by Andres125sx
strad wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 00:53
IMHO 60-70k$ is far from expensive for all that
Well,,, Then we will all be waiting for the pictures when you shell out that kind of bread for any EV.
That's a whole lot on money no matter how you look at it. I said it was nice, but I don't foresee many people popping that kind of cash for either model.
That´s Tesla price, and Rivian is offering a lot more for that money compared to Tesla. Obviously it´s not a Suzuki Jimmy competitor, it´s a VW Tuareg/ BMW X5/X6/Mercedes GLS competitor, actually offering a lot more than those (both in perfomance and off road capabilities) for less money
I don´t see many people popping 90k$ on a SUV wich almost can´t go off-road
, but I see X5, X6 and GLS almost daily, I see no reason to say a 60-70k$ SUV wich is much more capable won´t succed
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:51
by izzy
djos wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:16
Doesn’t the UK have a handful of other EV’s on the market tho?
Zoe, i3, eGolf, otherwise i think they're all sold out, but a lot of new ones are coming this year from Kia and VW etc, it's all just about to kick off into the big time i think, but nothing like that Bolt price afaik
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 17:16
by Big Tea
izzy wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:51
djos wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 12:16
Doesn’t the UK have a handful of other EV’s on the market tho?
Zoe, i3, eGolf, otherwise i think they're all sold out, but a lot of new ones are coming this year from Kia and VW etc, it's all just about to kick off into the big time i think, but nothing like that Bolt price afaik
I think MG is the lowest price available. A friend had one on 'introductory offer' for 21k
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 18:49
by izzy
Big Tea wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 17:16
I think MG is the lowest price available. A friend had one on 'introductory offer' for 21k
oh yes, i'm out of touch, supposedly £27k but amazingly 21995! and there's a Seat Mii and VW e-UP
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 22:17
by Big Tea
izzy wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 18:49
Big Tea wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 17:16
I think MG is the lowest price available. A friend had one on 'introductory offer' for 21k
oh yes, i'm out of touch, supposedly £27k but amazingly 21995! and there's a Seat Mii and VW e-UP
It was almost 4k forward by MG, 2 or 3 by Government and 1. something by the dealership. It did not last as I went there the following week and it was too late. first 5000 sales only
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 23:09
by izzy
Big Tea wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 22:17
It was almost 4k forward by MG, 2 or 3 by Government and 1. something by the dealership. It did not last as I went there the following week and it was too late. first 5000 sales only
oh bad luck. Way to shift 5000 cars tho! even when the reviews aren't great. But there'll be something else along soon, hopefully. They all have these targets to meet don't they, to avoid EU emissions penalties
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 23:37
by Tommy Cookers
izzy wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 23:09
..... They all have these targets to meet don't they, to avoid EU emissions penalties
well we had 2 days without the Greeny bogus 'EVs save the environment' sloganeering ....
EU emissions penalties are triggered by taxpayer-subsidised wood burners - kissing-up to earlier Greenist mood
such wood-burners produce 75% of the UK city eg London particulate emission
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 10 Feb 2020, 00:17
by izzy
Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 23:37
izzy wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 23:09
..... They all have these targets to meet don't they, to avoid EU emissions penalties
well we had 2 days without the Greeny bogus 'EVs save the environment' sloganeering ....
EU emissions penalties are triggered by taxpayer-subsidised wood burners - kissing-up to earlier Greenist mood
such wood-burners produce 75% of the UK city eg London particulate emission
for the moment they seem to be leaving woodburners to some other department:
Article 1
Subject matter and objectives
1. This Regulation establishes CO2 emissions performance requirements for new passenger cars and for new light commercial vehicles in order to contribute to achieving the Union's target of reducing its greenhouse gas emissions, as laid down in Regulation (EU) 2018/842, and the objectives of the Paris Agreement and to ensure the proper functioning of the internal market.
2. From 1 January 2020, this Regulation sets an EU fleet-wide target of 95 g CO2/km for the average emissions of new passenger cars and an EU fleet-wide target of 147 g CO2/km for the average emissions of new light commercial vehicles registered in the Union, as measured until 31 December 2020 in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 692/2008 together with Implementing Regulations (EU) 2017/1152 and (EU) 2017/1153, and from 1 January 2021 measured in accordance with Regulation (EU) 2017/1151.
3. This Regulation will, until 31 December 2024, be complemented by additional measures corresponding to a reduction of 10 g CO2/km as part of the Union's integrated approach referred to in the Commission's communication of 7 February 2007 entitled ‘Results of the review of the Community Strategy to reduce CO2 emissions from passenger cars and light-commercial vehicles’.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32019R0631
So if they want to sell lots of big fat ICE suv's, they have to offload some treehuggers' EV's too, as part of the fleet
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 10 Feb 2020, 00:32
by Ferry
AJI wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 11:13
The first manufacturer that offers a BEV that you never have to physically plug-in will mop the floor with every other manufacturer.
Plugging in an EV every now and then is really not that much work. I've done it for the last 5+ years. Pop the charge hatch open, stretch my hand out for the plug on the wall, plug it in. Takes like 5 seconds or so. The efficiency of a simple plug is hard to beat. Inductive charging comes with a few disadvantages, like loss of energy, more weight, more complexity, higher price etc. And you still need a charge port for all those situations when you park somewhere without a charge pad. It's a solution looking for a problem.
It's actually much more hassle to get the groceries out of the car. Or the dog, or the kids or almost any other things. Finding my keys and opening the front door to my house is more work than plugging in the EV.
Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?
Posted: 10 Feb 2020, 00:55
by djos
Ferry wrote: ↑10 Feb 2020, 00:32
AJI wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 11:13
The first manufacturer that offers a BEV that you never have to physically plug-in will mop the floor with every other manufacturer.
Plugging in an EV every now and then is really not that much work. I've done it for the last 5+ years. Pop the charge hatch open, stretch my hand out for the plug on the wall, plug it in. Takes like 5 seconds or so. The efficiency of a simple plug is hard to beat. Inductive charging comes with a few disadvantages, like loss of energy, more weight, more complexity, higher price etc. And you still need a charge port for all those situations when you park somewhere without a charge pad. It's a solution looking for a problem.
It's actually much more hassle to get the groceries out of the car. Or the dog, or the kids or almost any other things. Finding my keys and opening the front door to my house is more work than plugging in the EV.
Personally I'd take plugging in an EV every night over driving to the Gas/Petrol Station every week, filling up on the day Petrol has inexplicably jumped up by 20c per Litre for no good reason and then being asked by the kid at the counter if A/ I have a rewards card & B/ if I want 3 Cokes for the price of 2!!!