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If McLaren has the same Cd as Mercedes, the reported 25 km/h terminal speed deficit, the MHPE poweradvantage could be as much as 25%, like 700 vs 875. A gap which will be very difficult to bridge with the current rules?

Are you just throwing random numbers aroaund? Reported 25km/h... check the actual numbers! (or at least, provide a source) ...could be as much as 25%... is that guesstimated? One could, arguably, actually try to calculate these things! (and after doing it the figure comes out much lower than 25%).

Not really random, with the cubic relationship between power and speed, 345 over 320 is actually 1.25.

The source for the 25 km/h deficit was from here; http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns31690.html

But of course, 25 km/h sounds like they were driving in different directions and the number was from a spanish source,
perhaps you have other data? Even a 10 km/h difference, like 340 vs 330, would indicate a 10% deficit.

But on the other hand, McLaren might run much more wing?

My apologies, it is cubed, not squared (as I used), you are correct. But the source... (diario as) was comparing to Verstappen. Today Button was less than 10km/h behind Mercedes' cars.
By the way, that a motorsports based newspaper or news outlet can cite "Spanish reports" for something like this is lazy beyond belief! The numbers are publicly available!
My apologies again for pointing that "lazy" towards you.And thanks for adding the source.

No need to apologize, this is a forum for debate after all, while I wouldn't take a spanish paper for certain either.

But even 10 km/h slower would suggest being some 70-90 hp down, all depending on aerodynamic set-up of course.

Do you have some more precise numbers Hollus?

Honda vs merc from Q1
https://vid.me/of6y

Juzh wrote:Honda vs merc from Q1
https://vid.me/of6y

It seems to me hat they can't even get the revs up, while the 25 km/h top speed deficit from above was accurate?

Sixbarboost wrote:

Juzh wrote:Honda vs merc from Q1
https://vid.me/of6y

It seems to me hat they can't even get the revs up, while the 25 km/h top speed deficit from above was accurate?

Why wouldn't it be?

Juzh wrote:

Sixbarboost wrote:

Juzh wrote:Honda vs merc from Q1
https://vid.me/of6y

It seems to me hat they can't even get the revs up, while the 25 km/h top speed deficit from above was accurate?

Why wouldn't it be?

Well not really because heading into Blanchimont the McLaren is around 310 km/h and the Mercedes around 327 km/h. For some reason the McLaren looks like it 'scrubs' off more speed going through the turn than Mercedes. But its heading into the final chicane where the deficit looks to be about 25km/h, after Blanchimont Mercedes looks like it hits 330 just before brakes are hit, where as McLaren kind of dies in the rear around 305. Perhaps the MGU-K discharge rate is too high to sustain substantial electric drive heading into the chicane?

Engine sounds really rough too, almost like it has uneven firing order. Its like every time an engine upgrade is claimed, its a huge disappointment.

The telemetry is genuine and correct. Stop with this nonsense. Honda is massively sub-par compared to merc in just about every aspect. They shed more speed because they have less power to sustain it and have no ERS left to regain speed after blanchimont. Easy explanation.

For Spa, the power unit in the back of the McLaren-Honda MP4-30 will include a revised internal combustion engine, featuring changes to the combustion chamber, intake, exhaust layout and gear-train system, according to Honda motorsport chief Yasuhisa Arai.


"Spa is the final upgrade for this year, with ancillaries to follow in the following race," Arai told AUTOSPORT


Wonder what the Ancillaries are ?

So Honda won't spent rest of their tokens? AMUS said they don't know on what to spend them on a week ago, might be true. Omnicorse reported today that Renault and Honda (but not Merc and Ferrari) will be able to make unlimited upgrades (decision made in Belgium) next year so maybe they don't feel need to spend these tokens this season if they haven't got enough to fix the issues.

Ancillaries as in cooling, and turbo and MGU-H,K?

ferkan wrote:So Honda won't spent rest of their tokens? AMUS said they don't know on what to spend them on a week ago, might be true. Omnicorse reported today that Renault and Honda (but not Merc and Ferrari) will be able to make unlimited upgrades (decision made in Belgium) next year so maybe they don't feel need to spend these tokens this season if they haven't got enough to fix the issues.

I hope that's true but if it is why wait till next year to remove the token binds ?

ferkan wrote:So Honda won't spent rest of their tokens? AMUS said they don't know on what to spend them on a week ago, might be true. Omnicorse reported today that Renault and Honda (but not Merc and Ferrari) will be able to make unlimited upgrades (decision made in Belgium) next year so maybe they don't feel need to spend these tokens this season if they haven't got enough to fix the issues.

That´d be nosense, they´ve checked first hand this season how important is track testing, anything they can upgrade now and test it this season would be very important for them

Link to that suposed unlimited tokens upgrades?