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godlameroso wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 17:46

I wish the other teams were half as willing to share what they do. None of them would admit they're using platinum or palladium catalysts in the fuel rail to "crack" the fuel.

Have you read this somewhere? Mind sharing it?

godlameroso wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 17:46

I wish the other teams were half as willing to share what they do. None of them would admit they're using platinum or palladium catalysts in the fuel rail to "crack" the fuel.

Would cracking the fuel into smaller chains help though?

It has some benefits, the goal is efficiency, partially oxygenating the fuel through catalysts can improve mixing with the oxygen delivery system(turbomachinery), in gasoline distillation plants catalysts are used to increase the volume of fuel.

I don't know if they do this, but this is old diesel technology, and I'd be surprised if they haven't at least looked into it. I'll put it this way, F1 style TJI turned out to be a leaky spark plug condom, is this really that out there by comparison?

godlameroso wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 18:06

It has some benefits, the goal is efficiency, partially oxygenating the fuel through catalysts can improve mixing with the oxygen delivery system(turbomachinery), in gasoline distillation plants catalysts are used to increase the volume of fuel.

I don't know if they do this, but this is old diesel technology, and I'd be surprised if they haven't at least looked into it. I'll put it this way, F1 style TJI turned out to be a leaky spark plug condom, is this really that out there by comparison?

I don't think it's out there at all; I'm just curious

'partly oxygenating the fuel' in the fuel rail - where's the oxygen ??
what about waste heat ?
cracking will produce byproducts like ethylene
or do you mean cracking and reforming ?

Daimler actually has a patent where it introduces air right at the injector nozzle to help atomization of the fuel.

Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 19:08

'partly oxygenating the fuel' in the fuel rail - where's the oxygen ??
what about waste heat ?
cracking will produce byproducts like ethylene
or do you mean cracking and reforming ?

I meant breaking down the fuel into smaller chains, the oxygen is in the fuel itself ~3.7% of the fuel is oxygen, freeing some of the oxygen through a catalyst could improve combustion efficiency.

godlameroso wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 18:06

It has some benefits, the goal is efficiency, partially oxygenating the fuel through catalysts can improve mixing with the oxygen delivery system(turbomachinery), in gasoline distillation plants catalysts are used to increase the volume of fuel.

I don't know if they do this, but this is old diesel technology, and I'd be surprised if they haven't at least looked into it. I'll put it this way, F1 style TJI turned out to be a leaky spark plug condom, is this really that out there by comparison?

You might know that some fuels are already oxygenized that u can find them in the market but I don't know if they are allowed in F1.(https://vpracingfuels.com/product/chp/)

amho wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 19:53

godlameroso wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 18:06

It has some benefits, the goal is efficiency, partially oxygenating the fuel through catalysts can improve mixing with the oxygen delivery system(turbomachinery), in gasoline distillation plants catalysts are used to increase the volume of fuel.

I don't know if they do this, but this is old diesel technology, and I'd be surprised if they haven't at least looked into it. I'll put it this way, F1 style TJI turned out to be a leaky spark plug condom, is this really that out there by comparison?

You might know that some fuels are already oxygenized that u can find them in the market but I don't know if they are allowed in F1.(https://vpracingfuels.com/product/chp/)

F1 fuel is allowed up to 3.7% oxygen content by weight, not volume.

That's in addition to the hydrocarbons and oxygenates derived from biosources to comply with the 5.75% bio source rule.

Although I think 19.5 rules out any catalyst in the fuel rail.

One thing with fuel is that it's a chain reaction, it's not just poof combustion hot, there's something like 10^23 processes and reactions that occur for each combustion event. Altering what happens and where that thing happens along that chain can have profound consequences.

Can they just use Nitro in the fuel and be done with it?

Those damn regulations.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 20:19

Can they just use Nitro in the fuel and be done with it?

With flow limited to 100 kg/hr they will make less power.

gruntguru wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2018, 03:02

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2018, 20:19

Can they just use Nitro in the fuel and be done with it?

With flow limited to 100 kg/hr they will make less power.

Quite.
Nitromethanol has an energy density of about 11MJ/kg, which is about a quarter that of typical gasoline - so if you want to see F1 IC engines developing under 200bhp, this is one way you could do it.

If you want to add more energy in the fuel (or in whatever the IC is ingesting - fuel or whatever else it might be ingesting: oil or anything it contains, coolant or anything it contains, any sort of ablative material on the intake side of the engine), you probably want something more energy dense than gasoline - eg. a boron-based zip fuel, if there were no regulations at all.
Unfortunately, there are regulations so people have to get quite "creative" to take advantage of this avenue.

You are allowed metals in the fuel.

Wazari wrote: ↑

03 Feb 2018, 02:22

Back on topic, I think that 980 HP is being very optimistic at this time. Good or bad, Honda has taken a very aggressive and innovative approach to 2018. The overall architecture remains the same but big changes in the intake and combustion process should be forthcoming as well as a MGU-H unit. Obviously the goal is to surpass Mercedes and while difficult, not impossible. I think a more realistic number would be 980 HP by mid-season.

I hope so, Wazari, at least 970HP, with his second engine.
According to Brembo, in 2016 Mercedes already had 950 HP. Therefore, we have to overcome these numbers

2016年はテクニカルレギュレーションに関して言えばかなり安定したシーズンでしたが、マシンのパワーは更にアップしました。950 hpの馬力を実現したメルセデスのパワーユニットは多くのオブザーバーから賞賛を受けました。
http://www.brembo.com/jp/company/news/h ... mbo-brakes