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Well if Pirelli have been stopped from fixing the problems they have with the softer tyres by Lotus then they can hardly complain when harder tyres are chosen. Pirelli dont want a another public relations disaster like Barcelona

I think you have named the main motivator in all this, 'public relations disaster'.

FoxHound wrote:And for the record, where did Bernie say... "Mercedes should've said no".

Well Bernie's analogy is pretty clear that he likens it to Merc being offered stolen cash. I'm not sure how his comment could be interpreted in any other way. Admittedly Bernie is fond of outrageous colourful comments, sometimes he's simply show boating, but you can't fault Cooper for reporting what was said.

Aha, I think I've found wriggle room. To any reasonable person the stolen cash analogy would indicate that they thought Merc should have said no. But its presumptuous to assume that Bernie wouldn't accept stolen cash. So maybe Bernie was saying it's like being offered stolen cash and he couldn't see how anybody wouldn't take up the offer.

I'm not libelling Bernie, just trying to find a way to rationalise how a stolen cash analogy could mean anything other than "they should have said no".

But then there's a second quote "The one thing an unmarried girl has got is the right to say ‘no.’ You would have to reckon that Mercedes were in that position…” How can that not mean "Merc were in a position to say no" ?

The "unmarried girl" comment is bizarre, do married women not have a right to say no? Do men not have a right to say no?

autogyro wrote:

Well if Pirelli have been stopped from fixing the problems they have with the softer tyres by Lotus then they can hardly complain when harder tyres are chosen. Pirelli dont want a another public relations disaster like Barcelona

I think you have named the main motivator in all this, 'public relations disaster'.

Nail on the head. Lotus could have subscribed to the changes and maybe they would have swung further in their favor? Pirelli have little choice now really, do they?

Lotus should just build a better car. Isn't that what they said everyone else should do?

FoxHound wrote:Who knows. I don't. None of us really do, regardless of some quite extraordinary moral high ground rhetoric. Shall we all perhaps now just wait for the facts? [-o<

That is true. I think we are all entitled to our own theories and can post them as opinions, but they simply are opinions until the correct legal process has established hard facts. Therefore it is in-polite and not appropriate to the code of conduct we have on this site to get emotional or personal over the opinions some fellow user publish here. If someone opines that in his view Mercedes are "guilty as hell" that is his personal opinion and he surely is entitled to it. But is it smart or reasonable to attack other people or get hot under the collar just because someone else wants to reserve judgement for the time when facts are really known? I think not!

On the issue of the stolen cash analogy I just want to point out how Bernie usually uses his interview opportunities. He only gives an opinion or comment when he sees a chance to push his agenda and whatever he says can be the total opposite of what he has said the day before or will say the next day.

Besides the analogy isn't really fitting. If someone offers you stolen cash you know it is illegal. But if someone offers you a test which your lawyers tell you is legal under carefully observed operational rules it is not obviously illegal. It is taking a risk with high potential rewards. Brawn can look the complete idiot and look at a wrecked career next week or be a hero for a clever exploitation of a loop hole. It all depends on the outcome of that legal battle.

Regarding Bernie's agenda we only have to remember the Williams/Parr story to know with how much vengeance and ruthlessness Bernie can try to wreck someone who crosses him in the execution of his power plays. So any opportunity to sign up Pirelli for over $50m and destroy Brawn at the same time requires very little other incentives for him to take position in public. You can bet the house that he will say just the opposite on the 21st if the IT exonerates Brawn and Merc.

richard_leeds wrote: ...
Well Bernie's analogy is pretty clear that he likens it to Merc being offered stolen cash.
...

My point being that if that is the case, it was MrE himself who lifted the dole, with CW as his fence.

more tyre complaints from barcelona , front tyres too soft and no grip , riders falling off

this is the useless bridgestone tyres in motoGP thread , isn't it ?

pob wrote:In my opinion, all tyre compounds should be named for each race at the start of the season and only changed with unanimous agreement of the teams.

That would create an even greater problem for those who have to make those choices, often without appropriate testing data. I think the current system is an acceptable compromise.

Anyone got any info on the rumour that Ecclestone will use this Mercedes row as a way to kick pirelli out and bring Michelin back?

The only tire which is a completely fail is the soft
Practically never used.

This Supersoft is ok at certain tracks (Monaco, Canada ...)

Medium and hards are OK, but should be called the soft and the medium

For certain tracks an ULTRA hard compound should be done

Javert wrote:This Supersoft is ok at certain tracks (Monaco, Canada ...)

The soft would be ok at those circuits too - because what hurts the softs at other circuits is the same as what hurts the supersofts at those other circuits.

Medium and hards are OK, but should be called the soft and the medium

For certain tracks an ULTRA hard compound should be done

Meaning go back to the 2012 tyres?

SiLo wrote:Anyone got any info on the rumour that Ecclestone will use this Mercedes row as a way to kick pirelli out and bring Michelin back?

I think that's ridiculous.. mostly by virtue of Michelin not really being that interested.

Jersey Tom wrote:

SiLo wrote:Anyone got any info on the rumour that Ecclestone will use this Mercedes row as a way to kick pirelli out and bring Michelin back?

I think that's ridiculous.. mostly by virtue of Michelin not really being that interested.

Pirelli seems to have completed a deal with BE for track side advertising for the next few years. They also seems to have had some back room deals with some teams (probably on advice of BE) such as Ferrari and Red Bull (judging by comments of Horner more recently) by offering free a free tyre contract and make the rest of the teams fall in line, and thereby undermining the FIA role in the tyre decision. From what is being said around, it is the FIA that wants to be relevant in the tyre decision hence the talk about Michelin.

Division always works in F1.

Sadly, that is true. Back when FOTA consisted out of all the team things actually got done. Nowadays we don't really have one party that dominates the others.

Division always works in F1.

Divide and Conquer has been around since Clausewitz and Sun Tzu. But it has been raised to a high art and polished to perfection by the minions of Formula One. Bernie is a manipulative SOB, but he is far from the only one.

I have a sense that folks here don't think much of grandprix.com, but what the heck....this thread has lost some steam lately so here's something to provoke some more commentary:



JUNE 17, 2013
Pirelli frustrated with F1

It is possible F1 will have to embark on an eleventh-hour search for a new official tyre supplier for 2014. Pirelli is expressing increasing frustration with its situation in formula one, just as its initial three-year contract with the sport is set to expire. The latest salvo is more criticism after Pirelli announced its tyre compound selections for the next few races, with Italy's Autosprint wondering if the 'conservative' choice is "strategic or simple prudence?"

Lotus engineer Alan Permane is heavily critical. "It's unusual to take the same tyres to Hungary as to Bahrain and Silverstone," he told the BBC. "It absolutely doesn't make sense -- they're too hard for that track."

Force India is another team that would have liked the status quo to remain. "I have had no major problems with the tyres," Adrian Sutil told the German broadcaster ZDF. "A lot of people are complaining, but I'm not, really, because it's a challenge that's the same for everyone. We all have the same tyres."

Pirelli's Paul Hembery, however, insisted to British broadcaster Sky that all the Italian marque is "trying to do (is) our job in quite difficult circumstances". Hembery has become more vocally complaining of the lack of cooperation and support from the teams, and on Thursday Pirelli will in Paris face the FIA's wrath over Mercedes' secret Barcelona test, or 'tyre-gate'.

He admitted his bosses at Pirelli are "unhappy" with elements of the F1 foray.

"We will see how things progress over the next period of time to see how the mood changes," said Hembery. "An easy reaction would be to say 'this is madness, get out,' but we are a company that likes to provide solutions."

+++++++++++

It would not surprise me at all if Pirelli said "Take this sport and shove it! " If I sat on the board of directors, that's what I'd recommend. Who needs all the bickering, drama and negative publicity?